FIBS Board backgammon forum

As someone else has stated, my single criterion for removing the inter-Italian play ban is one year of my not having to clean up accounts from Italian players abusing the site.

The clock is currently at one hour.  I just deleted a bunch of accounts AGAIN.

As of yesterday, TOR users are no longer welcome on FIBS.

Quote from: Patti on March 27, 2007, 05:56:27 PM
As someone else has stated, my single criterion for removing the inter-Italian play ban is one year of my not having to clean up accounts from Italian players abusing the site.

The clock is currently at one hour. 

Good! This means we have still 8759 hours to go. If there'll be no abuse in this time window i propose the Italian country for the Peace Nobel Prize next year.

Quote from: Patti on March 27, 2007, 05:56:27 PM
I just deleted a bunch of accounts AGAIN.
As of yesterday, TOR users are no longer welcome on FIBS.

This means the abusers weren't using TOR network. So, may i ask which kind of abuse was?

neurino

It doesn't mean abusers weren't using the TOR network.  It means that I shut TOR access down yesterday and cleaned up a lot of partially-TOR-based mess today.

From fibs shout (edited for brevity and clarity), about 1h ago:

• You shout: Can you comment on these points? (a) IP banning is technologically pointless, (b) the message is out and perpetuating won't make it a lot different now, and (c) clan liability is so middle ages
• Patti shouts: My criterian for dropping the ban is simple:  one year of my not finding this sort of abuse from Italians.
• Patti shouts: (a) The problem has been reduced but not eliminated.  (b) The abuse rate has gone way down since I've made it more technically difficult.  (c) Whatever.
• You shout: i'll send a cut/paste of this to the page maintainer
• Patti shouts: No need, inim.  I've already explained it all to him.  He doesn't want to hear truth... he just wants to b17ch.

Patti may be acting draconian here, but at least she made a her position abundantly clear. She expects "the italians" to abstain from manipulations for a year.

The campain ignores this, and by this selectively supresses truth. As a result Patti keeps being bombarded by messages and mail, surely not contributing to her willingness to lift the ban.

My position is that the campain in it's current form hurts the very cause it tries to achive: lifting the ban. I liked to see the same energy invested in helping Patti to fight the cheaters. More concrete: modify the web page to spread Patti's word, talk to fellow italians to spread the word. This involves some pride swallowing, but in the end helps the (just) cause a lot more than keeping on being a nuisance to Patti.

Abuse. I still haven't understood what kind of abuse are we talking about. Multiple nicks, maybe?
So why did i get complaints from the same ip? A whole family, dog included, complaints against me  or simply the same person  , who decides to complain without any reason, as I didn't ever play with none of those nicks.
And the ip was both a tor network nor an italian one.
English is not my mother language, so surely i've lost something, but still i don't know the reason of the so-called ban.
Cheaters only from Italy? Oh! I shame on me! I'm an Italian woman, so the equation that has been made is Italian = cheater  .
Math is not my preferred subject, but I see that it's a wrong equation. Cheaters have no nation, if I see a cheater, may I send an email
to you Patty, with the abuser's ip and then? Another banned nation or only Italy?
I told in another post, if you need, I can give the logs to the Italian Postal Police, in order to
procede accordingly to the law. Feel free to contact me whenever you wish, sending the a.b. logs, my email is known by you:as soon as I get it, I'll pass it to the PolPost  .
Namaste,
hexagon_sun

just use parlorplay

Hex, the abuse I'm talking about is all over the map.  I don't really feel a need to detail it and provide people with new ideas for making trouble.  Suffice it to say that I've deleted hundreds if not thousands of abuse accounts that originated from Italy.

I've considered moving ParlorPlay to virtual Italy, but haven't yet done so.

Exagon, e' sciocco continuare, la storia e' vecchia (leggi un mio vecchio thread).. forse una persona forse 2/3, uno stupidino.. un hacker.. Ci fu una discussione.. a torto o a ragione?? Non lo so. Ora non e' importante chi avesse ragione, e' il risultato.. in evidenza!
Ogni volta che lancio il programma, leggo: Questo server.. e' un insulto alla mia intelligenza e mi passa la voglia di giocare.
Mi dispiace immensamente per l'occasione perduta, potevamo venire qui.. no grazie.
Immagina quanto poteva crescere Fibs..

Siamo un Team europeo, tutte le nazioni sono rappresentate, tutti sono benvenuti, sufficiente essere europei non importa dove si vive. Le regole ci sono. Chi si comporta male viene bannato, rientra con un nick diverso.. bannato ancora.. non la sua nazione!
Facciamo i tornei piu' importanti in tutto il web con squadre come gli Zilla, Pal, Lat, Brs..etc. oppure come singoli giocatori.
Se vuoi farne parte.. chiedimi pure, qualsiasi europeo voglia farne parte.. puo' chiedermi informazioni.
Tutto gratis naturalmente.

Exagon, e' sciocco continuare.. anche se ''Gutta cavat lapidem"

Claudio


Exagon, is a nonsense to continue, is an old story (read my old thread).. may be was a person.. may be 2/3 persons.. a stupid.. an hacker.. It was a discussion.. wrigth or wrong?? I don't know. Is no more important now who was in wrigth, is the result.. in evidence!
Every time I launch the program I read: This server...  that is an injury to my intelligence and the pleasure of playing here is gone.
I'm very very sorry for the lost occasion, we all could be here.. no thanks! No more!
Think about how much Fibs would be increased...

We are an European Team, all the nations are in, all are welcome! is enough be european is not important where you live. We have the rules. The abuser is banned, reenter with a different nick.. banned again.. not his/her Nation!
We make the most important tourneys in alla the web v/s. Teams like Zilla, Pal, Brs, Lat.. etc. or for single player.
Feel free to enter the Team.. ask me only if you want. Every European feel free to enter.. they can ask to me some informations.. if they want.
All free.. naturally 
Exagon, is a nonsense to continue.. even if ''Gutta cavat lapidem'' (is Latin)

Claudio

P.S. Somewhere I wrote ''droppers'' sorry.. for me droppers=cheaters=abusers, are just the same. I used just only 1 word instead 3.

Quote from: Patti on March 27, 2007, 10:36:01 PM
It doesn't mean abusers weren't using the TOR network.  It means that I shut TOR access down yesterday and cleaned up a lot of partially-TOR-based mess today.

Sorry Patti, just to be precise (aka "bitching"(cit.) a little bit more) : if up to few days ago you hadn't close TOR accesses yet, this means that TOR users weren't considered abusers.

inim points out something right: italians abusers (beside TOR users, we found out at least that) have to stop. how many are they? hundreds? thousands? You say they are so many, that each weekend hundreds accounts have to be deleted. But how many were responsible for the ban? It isn't surprising that they increased.

I will modify the webpage.

Will the ban have a shorter specious condition to be lifted? Waiting 1 year is like to say: "i'll become a tibetan monk if it won't rain for 1 year".

neurino

Quote from: neurino on March 30, 2007, 01:04:13 AM
Sorry Patti, just to be precise: if up to few days ago you hadn't close TOR accesses yet, this means that TOR users weren't considered abusers...

I hadn't yet discovered the extent of the TOR-based abuse, nor gone through the non-trivial effort of shutting it down.

By the way, Italians shouldn't take this personally. Some years ago I cut off access to all of AOL for a while, thanks to TomServo.  Anyone remember him?

Quote from: Patti on March 30, 2007, 01:10:49 AM
I hadn't yet discovered the extent of the TOR-based abuse, nor gone through the non-trivial effort of shutting it down.

By the way, Italians shouldn't take this personally. Some years ago I cut off access to all of AOL for a while, thanks to TomServo.  Anyone remember him?

Uh, i modified right now my too essential quote. Thanks for the fast answer, btw. I guess the AOL users could have beaten this TomServo. I can understand mantaining FIbs can deserve stiffness. But nothing is eternal.
We'll see.

Bye

neurino

No, one year is it.  Since I've been dealing with this problem for a couple of years already, I have no particular inclination to shorten that.  I also don't have much reason to believe that it will ever get lifted, given that it's been going on for so long.

Hi Patti, hi all,

As Patti thinks that she will never lift the ban, I want to give a suggestion. I believe that all people deserve a second chance... I know that 1) patti has to do a lot of free work with the useless entries, accounts etc. Italians pay for the mistake of a guy. May be that person regret for his actions as he was the reason for a whole nation to be banned....

I will get to the point... I suggest Patti to lift the ban for a week ... if nothing happens to continue this for another week... so in case that the italian trully regrets then italians could continue enjoy FIBS. If not, at least Patti would give them a last chance...   

adamosad, did you miss the part where I said I was cleaning up this stuff just last week?  Since he's been doing it for a very long time, I have no reason to believe that he suddenly regrets his actions.

Edit:  Five minutes ago.

And the clock is back at zero.  I just cleaned up a bunch of mess from abusive Italian players.

What kind of mess Patti?

My earlier answer to "What kind of mess?" is earlier in this thread:  http://www.fibsboard.com/general-chit-chat/fibs-free-italian-players-campaign-t1565.0.html;msg12313#msg12313

I know, but i was curious if you had the same kind of mess this time.