Community or snakepit?

[webrunner]

I don't know if I influence a thing with my shouts and ptofanities. I don't know if I set any kind of tone.

Nowhere in all 7 pages of this discussion have I stated or even hinted that my opinion should be shouted and that yours should not. It is ridiculous, and it is even more ridiculous that you should characterize my postings here in the way you did.

I suppose we suspect that you'd like to censor and ban people because you've said so in no uncertain terms. Let me remind you what you wrote when you initiated this discussion regarding language and behavior by zyx that you found offensive;

" I am really getting fed up with these characters and thus i am starting a crusade right here, right now against all the people that are spoiling fibs in my opinion."

You go on to say that you're banning zyx from your tourneys for behavior that's personally offensive to you. That's your right, they're your tourneys, but you can't have it both ways.

You can't ban someone then wonder aloud why anyone would ever think you're acting like a moral cop. If it walks like a duck.........

I also remind you of Alef's warning to me because HE disliked the content of one of my posts here.

It is NOT true that I dislike things you say and am trying to shut you up. I find most of what you two write to be naive and ridiculous, but I've never suggested you be censored and if I wanted to shut you up, I'd simply gag you.

I notice that you never addressed the suggestion I made to improve FIBS for all you folks who find shouts offensive.

DISABLE ALL SHOUTS and the problem vanishes.


NIHI

NIHI.. if you quote me at least do it right.
I cannot ban people from tourney's since i am not a Tourney Diriector.
I said i banned zyx from the bots.

I did this because of the insane way he verbally attacked me an Kari Grandi, using the most terrible language i have come across.
This is what i started a fight against.. and i will keep on doing that.
For me this kind of attack is a sign of weakness and lack of intellegence.. since it looks like you cannot attack or defend with normal language.

And about the disabling of shouts: you still don't get it.. i don't mind the shouts, yells and even arguments.. i love them even!
I like to have a heated discussion sometimes in shouts.. but you will never see me telling someone to ....do some stuff to his/her dead mother.. etc. etc.

This to me is outragious.. and if you can't understand that and call me a moral cop when i try to keep shouts like this out of Fibs.. then so be it! See if i care.....
If that makes you feel more confident about yourself and gives you an excuse to keep shouting your profanities.. go ahead..

I am just glad what i have reached with this topic so far.................

[souptree]

adults, yes.  however, we are the internet.  we have children here, too.

please don't forget the children.  we can't keep them out.  how shall we influence them?

Simply, it's not the job of an online backgammon site to ensure parents are overseeing their children.  They'll see worse at any newsstand or on prime time television anyway.  You cannot alter the degradation of culture via the fibs shout window.  It's just an absurd endeavor.  It's also not like you are talking about 5 year olds.  There are no 5 year olds on fibs, and 13 year olds know more dirty words than you.

BTW, has it ever occurred to you that maybe some of those kids are actually smart enough to differentiate between right and wrong for themselves?  Give them some credit to feel the same way about it that you do.  I'm pretty sure socksey has managed to be a fibster this long without going out on her porch and yelling sandnigger at the top of her lungs, and some of those kids might be able to do the same thing.

There are a lot of good lessons provided by fibs if you look for them, even for kids.  There is much in life that the negativity of is best demonstrated by excess.

The reality is that the world is an ugly, coarse place full of the cruel, and mean-spirited (as well as those who only play them on, uh, TV).  You can't censor that, even with a profanity filter.  The world isn't flowers and bunnies just because you look away from the ugly.

Face it, folks.  The lowest common denominator is not something you can avoid.  Why not just try to see the beauty in the profane as well?  You may not like what zyx shouts much, but you have to confess, the guy's got a talent!  Admit it, woxsus: you have even laughed too, on occasion. Maybe we should influence them by teaching them that laughter is more powerful than self-righteous indignation.

[souptree]

i love u anyway.

socksey loves me!!!  :inlove:    :hartarrow:    :hartsbump:  :kisshart:  

[souptree]

you whine and b---h, moan and groan because repbot is unreliabl!.  you know it is true!  you ARE the the cause and effect.

I do NOT, and have NEVER complained about repbot being unreliable.  I have stated that it is, but it's really not a complaint.  I never saw a need for repbot for anyone who is around a lot to avoid droppers.  My point was more that it is unnecessary than that it was unreliable.  How hard is it to not play 1900s with 500 exp, and to not play garykay?  Is it a useful tool for newbies to avoid droppers?  Probably, but I always considered the difficult parts of the fibs learning curve to be a good thing.  I kind of like the survivalism requirement.  At least fibs is, for the most part, a place not crawling with the thin-skinned.  Do we really want to see the day where newbies don't resi b to get their opponents to move?  I've often found that those who laugh at being had by that gag quickly become known and valued members of the [community | snakepit].  Some people realize, "hey, I'm home!"

Anyway, just to clarify that while there are many who DO complain about the popularity contest usage of repbot, I was never one of them.  In fact, I find it the most entertaining, and thereby "useful" feature of it.  Repbot is certainly doing a great job of articulating social Darwinism in real time.  Just ask Biggles!

It's also providing valuable insights for those working on the problem it is intended to solve.  Programmers should want troublemakers trying to break their systems!  I know people who are paid good money to do the kinds of things fibsters do for free daily, just to piss each other off.

[socksey]

souptree says:

Simply, it's not the job of an online backgammon site to ensure parents are overseeing their children. They'll see worse at any newsstand or on prime time television anyway. You cannot alter the degradation of culture via the fibs shout window. It's just an absurd endeavor. It's also not like you are talking about 5 year olds. There are no 5 year olds on fibs, and 13 year olds know more dirty words than you.

i was thinking of the 9 yr old who has befriended me.  when she is in fibs, i literally cringe when i see some of zyx's and others shouts although i sometimes find them entertaining, personally.  come on.  is this the kind of thing you want your 9 yr old to hear/see?  i dont think so.  hey, i'm a mom. excuse me all to hell, but i don't like the little ones being influenced like this!  it's never going to be right from my perspective.

and all the other you added is just yada yada yada.

socksey

p.s.  well, u were the one who said you vouched for NIHILIST.




A house can burn up as it burns down?

[NIHILIST]

Webrunner, thanks for the clarification. You didn't ban zyx from tourneys, you DID ban him from your bots because of behavior disagreeable TO YOU, but you aren't a moral cop.

You believe in free speech but take offense when someone suggests you're a wannabe censor "when i try to keep shouts like this out of Fibs."

You are precisely what I accused you of being, and I'd be willing to wager that the next time some neo-fascist organization takes root in Europe, you'll be the one with the matches at the book-burnings.

NIHI

[PortWine]

A board full of flamewars is not something we all are looking for and i will prevent that from happening. Until then.. go ahead and continue the discussion in this thread, as long as you keep the language clean.

I think webrunner made the position clear a while back.  He doesn't want this to turn into FIBS-Flame Board, but he is willing to let some conversations run their course.

I really don't believe FIBS should be made safe for children, nor could it be.  There are times that I don't want my child in the same room as me when adults are talking, or when there are certain programs on TV.  Does that mean I should go around and try to make the world safe for her?  I think people who try to change everything to fit their idea of right and wrong are 2 steps away from being Nazis.  I would never let her use FIBS until she was much older, or only with chat and shout off.

But in truth, and we have a lot of teachers on FIBS that can back this up, FIBS is no worse than what she will hear the first time she takes a school bus to school.

That being said, webrunner has the difficult job of trying to keep things in reason, and everbody else can continue to complain (I wrote another word "######" - so you can guess what I said).  As far as I've seen no one has been censored yet. (except me just now! - lol)  Let's give webrunner a break Nihi.  You definately have a point, but again, so far no one has really been censored.

[NIHILIST]

Agreed.

NIHI

[souptree]

i was thinking of the 9 yr old who has befriended me.  when she is in fibs, i literally cringe when i see some of zyx's and others shouts although i sometimes find them entertaining, personally.  come on.  is this the kind of thing you want your 9 yr old to hear/see?

The day my 9 year old has access to the fibs shout window is the day I hope the state comes and takes my children away from me.  Any parent allowing a 9 year old to roam free on the net without supervision is guilty of abuse, pure and simple.

Is it too much to ask people to oversee their own children?  You can forgive me, I hope, if I don't feel the responsibilty to compensate for the failure of parents to regulate what their children have access to.

In the 8 years I've been here, fibs has NEVER been a good place for a 9 year old.  Maybe you should ask your friend to have her mommy contact you so you can explain to her how to disable shouts on her kid's computer.  Wouldn't that be SLIGHTLY more effective than attempting to get zyx to tone it down?

[socksey]

no, i'm afraid not.  i tried.  i'm done with the subject.  let your conscience be your guide is what my daddy always said.  i guess i have more conscience than some, but if anyone has noticed, i have toned down myself in shouts.  i guess i shouldn't expect that anyone else would, just because i thought, whatever....  

socksey




(courtesy of NIHILIST)  make the best out of a bad joke, laugh it up; you didnt have to come here anyway...............rod stewart

[socksey]

souptree wrote:

The day my 9 year old has access to the fibs shout window is the day I hope the state comes and takes my children away from me.

souper,

this statement reminds me of something i have thought or said before i realized (painfully) that we can't control our children 24/7 like i said to someone else on this subject.  don't tell me you can.  i know better, sweetie.  much as we would like to and much as we would like to think they aren't in the same room with us (as adults on fibs), they are there and so i hope you will remember that when you see or utter some of the filthiest things i have ever heard in my life, that these are the things we are teaching our children, our leaders of tomorrow.

socksey




"You don't appreciate a lot of stuff in school until you get older. Little things like being spanked every day by a middle-aged woman. Stuff you pay good money for in later life." - Elmo Phillips  

[souptree]

our leaders of tomorrow

If any of the leaders of tomorrow are fibsters, we are doomed.

[burper]

W would have been a fibster, if it was around way back then.

[burper]

NIHI,
Aren't you influencing fibs too whith your shouts and profanities?
Aren't you setting a tone that way.... well.. so do i.
Who says that your opinion should be allowed to be shouted.. and mine not.. that IS ridiculous IMHO.

Why are you guys constantly blaming me and alef for being like a moral police and censoring.. when in fact you are..
Isn't it true that we are saying things that you don't like and that you are trying to shut us up??

I am for freedom of speech..you aren't appearently...

NIHI wants things to be so free that you get this:
http://groups.google.com/groups?dq=&hl=en&...ames.backgammon

r.g.b. has become totally useless and irrelevant.
I prefer fibsboard.com by miles

[NIHILIST]

I don't see any great relevance here either. It tends to be the same 6 people telling each other how wonderful they are. Neither Fibsboard nor rgb are any great resource except that occasionally rgb offers up a backgammon problem for discussion.

I participated in this discussion because webrunner mentioned my name in a negative context in the first post of this thread. If webrunner had been honest and said that, if he ran FIBS he'd ban everyone using profanity, and ban anyone who exhibited bad behavior from using his precious bots, I wouldn't have bothered.

But I couldn't resist the urge to expose his hypocrisy. Every time he denied being a moral cop or censor he dug himself into a deeper hole.

The result was this huge discussion of a supposed problem that has no solution anyway since Marvin isn't parting with the FIBS code. And since none of you seem to like my idea of disabling FIBS shouts, something that Patti probably COULD do, I suggest you all move on and toggle STFU.


NIHI

[burper]

I guess you see what you want to see, and put a blinder on to all the rest.

[webrunner]

I participated in this discussion because webrunner mentioned my name in a negative context in the first post of this thread. If webrunner had been honest and said that, if he ran FIBS he'd ban everyone using profanity, and ban anyone who exhibited bad behavior from using his precious bots, I wouldn't have bothered.

But I couldn't resist the urge to expose his hypocrisy. Every time he denied being a moral cop or censor he dug himself into a deeper hole.

NIHI,

I am really flabbergasted by your last post.  

I don't know where you get the idea that i would ban anyone using profanity.
It looks like you can't even afford a pair of reading glasses.
I explicetely (sp?) said that was not the case, yet you keep shouting that i would.
I have yet to read a good motivation for this syntheses.

I have said it numerous times.. i don't want to ban people.....in fact.. i have unbanned zyx from the bots a long time ago and i have banned no one so far from this forum or the bots.

The thing i will always prefer and what i tried to accomplish is a change if behaviour of certain people. And don't act like that is a crime!
As humans we all have a tendency to try to change our surroundings to our standards. Sorry for being Human!!
BTW: You arguing with me shows that you do the same thing.


If i where to have the control over FIBS i would prolly ban less people then Patti does, anly maybe for some other reasons.

As for my "precious" bots, wich are in fact just some processes on one of my servers, everone uses them and no one is banned (anymore) for weeks.

Lets Face it NIHI.. my post worked.. and i have accomplished my goals. :hungry:
They are just different goals then you want other people to believe i have (and maybe even yourself).  

Lets all make fibs a better place (whatever that may be).
:beer:

[PortWine]

The snosberries taste like snosberries!

I love this thread because it makes me feel better about myself!

I suggest we set up a certain thread called "flame here".  We can all go in there and just say blah blah blah!  Oh, I 'm sorry, we have that already its called SHOUT!

Being serious for a moment (not my strong suit) I think you do a great job webrunner.  If somebody doesn't like the job you are doing you should refund their money!

[NIHILIST]

I love this place, you just keep stepping deeper and deeper into it; " i don't want to ban people.....in fact.. i have unbanned zyx from the bots "

I think this one, John Kerry-like statement of yours sums up the entire thread.

Keep up the mediocre work.

NIHI

[burper]

Whats wrong with that statement NIHI?
He said he doesn't want to ban, but admits to banning apparently as a last resort.
You be as nice as you can, but at the same time, don't let people walk all over you.
It's a bummer that we have to imprison members of society that break the rules, but I'm all for doing it.