Community or snakepit?

[Mookie]

Wow.  5 pages of responses to this thread?  I must be doing something wrong.  I don't think I've ever been on fibs in my 9 years where it hasn't been a hoot.  I enjoy the "real" political debates, the fake debates, the witticisms, the humorous threads, the flirtations, and, truth be told, even the backgammon itself.  Snakepit stuff?: I learned to ignore that stuff back in grade school and here, with gag functions (as my friend diane keeps telling us), it's even easier.  And I count on that gag function to work for all of you if I'm having a bad day and let my immature side show for a moment (or ten).  By all means, "tell" me and othes when you think a line has been crossed.  I think most of the common shouters are more than happy to reflect on reasonable requests and expectations.

Now, would someone agree to actually find out why honeygirl hates me?

your friend,

mookie

p.s. VOUCH MOOKIE

[diane]

Good to see you here mookie - and i dont know - were you making out and lost concentration cos another pretty girl wandered by??  Some ladies dont like that!

[Matty]

Hi everyone, I've just been reading everyones posts and it seems as though there is a multitude of valid points, opinions and suggestions.

I too, am disappointed in the vocal minority that selfishly assume that their profanity contibutes something to this community.

The reason why there aren't too many anarchist communities (admitedly there's a few notable exceptions at the moment) in the world is that the best communities exist and thrive when the community members share common values and are respectful of each other.

I believe whole heartedly that people are entitled to have their own views, however I draw the line where those views are expressed in intolerant, combative or abusive terms and are forced on others. Some of the language and content expressed within the shouts borders on the criminal.

The log-on message for fibs is
     
"This server is on the net to meet people from all countries.
All sorts of racists and fascists are not allowed to login here!
Rude language will not be tolerated on this server. Be nice."

Yet, it seems that this statement is a bit like putting the Queensbury Rules for Boxing on the wall during a massive bar brawl. And the threats have not been followed up.

Many web-forums (in fact most...) have moderators to ensure that the majority of members are not offended, inconvenienced by or intimidated by the minority. People who do offend are removed by the moderators.

It would seem that Patti might not be too keen on the banning appoach. Fair enough - it's her baby. I haven't been around long enough to know who the repbot Gods are (ie who designs and controls this beautiful but powerful bot) but maybe they might consider appointing 'moderators' who can apply a penalty to the offender's reputation. Any instances of intimidation, abuse, racism, homophobic attacks, vilification, graphic descriptions of a sexual nature etc etc noted by a moderator who would issue the offender with a penalty against their rating and a message could be automatically sent to the offender to let them know.

This might encourage offenders to change their behaviour (but I doubt it) and at the very least it would keep them out of the tourneys. It gives newbies a chance to see who are the nasty players  so that they can avoid them. Also, it would remove the need to ask Patti to ban someone. Finally, people who thrive on attention (like these people obviously do) need others to notice them to 'reward' their bad behaviour through public acknowlegement. By ignoring them (and doing damage to their reputation so people know that they should ignore them) they are starved.

Perhaps there is no solution but there is my two cents worth . Is it possible from a technical point of view?

Cheers
matty

[jinnate]

so...

where was i?

oh yes. airplane analogies.

ah. forget that.

i remember ... being so fed up with the discussions all the time. there was really no question about what was going on and how it was affecting everyone. why were we still talking about it? it seemed like there was a contingent of "do-gooders" who didnââ,¬â,,¢t want to exact the consequences needed to end some of the madness.

it was so annoying because ...

wait. another tangentââ,¬â,,¢s demanding attention.

i remember one member couldnââ,¬â,,¢t keep her space clean. now artists are gonna have some chaos, thatââ,¬â,,¢s true, but her space was ... just filled with junk. she had stuff for projects sheââ,¬â,,¢d never do, and roadkill sheââ,¬â,,¢d picked up ("going to use the fur"). and thereââ,¬â,,¢d be stuff falling out of the confines of her space...

mostly it was the feeling you got from looking at the space. like coming home to a dirty house after a long day at work. it didnââ,¬â,,¢t help she really didnââ,¬â,,¢t see it as a problem.

everybody agreed it was a problem. but no one wanted to be the meanie, it seemed, and tell her she had to clean the space, keep it clean, or else. no one, it seemed, wanted to do the work required (tell her what the expected changes were, what the consequences would be, and enforce those consequences) to actually get the results they said they wanted. i canââ,¬â,,¢t tell you how pissed i was with that.

especially considering this wasnââ,¬â,,¢t her only annoying habit. she also stole things, paid rent late, talked incessantly about nothing, and it just seemed like if we cracked down on any one of her behaviors, weââ,¬â,,¢d solve a LOT of problems.

but each time people would start complaining, weââ,¬â,,¢d get to the "what to do about it" part, and it would fall apart. people would just keep talking about what we couldn't do. we couldn't ask her to clean her space because we couldn't define clean. (well, we couldn't agree upon the way to differentiate between artistic chaos and filth.) we couldn't ask her to stop stealing because we hadn't seen her actually take the item. we couldn't ask her to stbu (shut the blank up) because she was mentally ill, and couldn't help herself. we couldn't make enforce the rent issue because she was nuts and would pay eventually. blah-blah-blah, blah-blah blah-blah.

maddening.

[PortWine]

But here is a question.....sure it gets out of hand on occaision.....but is it that bad?  A lot of the stuff is "in house" if you will.  Some people refer to it as the kindergarten gang, but they usually just play amonst themselves.  Sure there is rudeness to the random player....but I don't see it too much.  Perhaps we are all fanning the flames of what is really a small fire?

  I just love this icon!

[Matty]

Not sure if you were online yesterday for heymark's little outburst Port but it was pretty full on, as anyone who witnessed it would probably agree.

Not merely rude, just a spewing forth of hatred and racism :angry: . Not nice stuff and certainly not within 'his little group'.

It's this sort of person I am talking about, not rude people, who don't bother me either way.

I'd like to take this moment to say a special hello to 'Z' who I know is a big fan of my posts.  

[don]

What I cannot figure out is how jinnate justifies her own kindergarten behavior, starting a flame war here, with her general musings.  It seems to me she is tracking up the floor, not mopping it.

[alef]

What I cannot figure out is how jinnate justifies her own kindergarten behavior, starting a flame war here, with her general musings.  It seems to me she is tracking up the floor, not mopping it. 

This is both a personalized attack and unconstructive. don, this is a public warning: please use the FIBS Board sensibly or not at all.

[lewscannon]

I just wish Mookie was a bit more discerning in who he flirts with. I gave my grandmother my Fibs log-on and now all she does is talk about shoes and cheese.

[alef]

Using the FIBS Board sensibly does include amusing randomness.

For the record I once met resh/csg for a few games of backgammon in a pub in London. To his credit, he won 2 matches. To my credit we survived the evening without his shouting about doodoo or muslims even once.

[PortWine]

Ya know what?  We should just all chill out.  I like the semi-serious debates.  I frequent Fibs just as much for the shouts as I do BG.  

It's just when it gets all stupid and wacky that I mind it.  I like to shout.  I could sit at home with a backgammon program and play against a compter.

Some of the harsher people need to watch what they say, and some of the thin skinned people need to get a life!

 

[don]

Thank you for the clarification, alef.  I admit I was a bit miffed when I wrote that post at what I perceive to be flames on FIBS abetted by a tourneybot director, but I get the point.  May I make some points of my own?

For example, you may recall that I started a thread on "TBot director qualifications /...they should know FIBS" in which I was careful to be polite and avoid naming the director I was referring to.  Now I'd say the following is a flame, pure and simple...

-- jinnate -- Apr 1 2004, 01:39 AM
i find it an honor and a privilege that my 50th posting would be to address you thusly:

go blank yourself, don.
--

The conversation went on, somewhat constructively, until the following flame....

-- burper --  Apr 3 2004, 06:43 AM
Don't enable this guy TD's, he'll never stop. He's always right. Just ignore it all and get back to running tourneys!
--

Then jinnate decided to start her very own flame thread, "Dear don /enough" which had the apparant purpose of being a final flame because she wasn't going to listen to me anymore.  Not my opinion of polite or reasonsible,  since she never even got the initial point, which did not have to be personal, and which you made very well, alef.

On this thread, you can see more flames from burper and others, and a very intelligent comment from you, alef, about crossed wires.  If jinnate had simply figured that out at the start instead of flaming, all would be well.

What I would like to know is, do you have to be a tourneybot director in order to flame here?  If so, I would like to become a director.  Who do I ask?  All I know is there is one director who cannot respond (or even read) an impersonal comment without making it personal and seeing to it that friends on FIBS get special information to use, information only available to a TD, to flame me there.  That is what got me miffed, and caused me to make the post to which you objected, alef.

I believe if you review my previous posts on the two mentioned threads, you will find that I was generally polite, attempted to be constructive, ignored most of the flames, and in fact was quite complimentary to jinnate.  At the very least, alef, I think you should make the point you made to me about posts here to users like jinnate and burper (and some others).

[NIHILIST]

Don has picked fights for years on FIBS, picked fights on RGB for years, and is well on his way to repeating the pattern here. Anyone who responds to him is trivialized and labelled a harasser and a FLAMER.

Lest anyone take him seriously, please remember that Don is the one who got banned from FIBS for 6 months for his infantile behavior.

It's also worth noting that he ratchets up his nonsense when confronted by a woman. He shout attacks Honeygirl, knowing that she's permagagged him. He picked a beef with Patti and got FIBS-banned. He picked a fight with Jinnate and is now banned from her tourneys.

In his recent posts here, he insists on dredging up the situation with Jinnate instead of leaving it alone and moving on.

The guy obviously has problems with strong minded women and probably needs professional help, but that's a subject for a psychiatric newsgroup.


NIHILIST

[don]

I note the typical words of  NIHILIST reply, same old same old, spiced with his typical lies.  Was NIHI's post a flame, alef?  I didn't notice a single remark about anything I've written here.

[PortWine]

......and yet it was all true.

[NIHILIST]

What part was a lie; that Patti banned you from FIBS or that Jinnate banned you from her tourneys ?

Is it a flame if it's a fact ?



NIHILIST

[don]

<-- is awaiting someone to address the issues.

[alef]

NIHILIST, your two recent posts on this thread are unconstructive personalized attacks. Please either find something worth contributing here or don't post at all. This is a public formal warning about your use of FIBS Board.

don, my warning to you concerned your particular post above my warning. I'm not going to get drawn into commenting on all the various threads between yourself, jinnate, burper and others. Just wish to say that questioning my responses to others is a distraction from the point at hand, and takes no account of private comments I have made as moderator. Please do not unnecessarily drag these matters out.

webrunner and I are moderating this Board in the best way we feel fit. We are not happy with the state FIBS shouts are in at times (hence the title of this thread) and are not willing to sit back and let this Board run free to descend to whatever level a minority of bickering posters see fit -- have a look at what rec.games.backgammon has sadly been like. Although some thick skinned readers might not mind, many others do. Having personalized fights polluting these threads puts people off reading here.

[NIHILIST]

I beg your pardon, I thought you wanted an OPEN discussion of the issue at hand. That generally means you'll hear from some who are in agreement with you, and some who DISAGREE.

I believe I stated my thoughts clearly, in a polite fashion, and, most important, supported by FACTS.

Was Jinnates 2 word BLANK YOU post, directed at Don anything less than a personal attack ? If so, why didn't you admonish her in the way you did me ?

Your post gives ample evidence of why you met with opposition in your quest for the FIBS code. Many, including myself, felt that if you got the code you'd turn FIBS into your own little coffee-klatsch, banning anyone you deemed had behaved badly.

This thread has run 7 pages and has amounted to nothing but spleen-venting. You've come up with nothing in the way of SOLUTIONS, which is moot anyway, since you cant impose them on FIBS.

I expect I'll be banned after this, if you have the guts to let it post at all. As my parting comment, I wish you, webrunner and Diane continued enjoyment of this site. I have a feeling that's all of you who will remain in a few weeks.


NIHILIST

[diane]

On the contrary, what we are all seeing here is players in larger and larger numbers coming to visit this site, reading - and more importantly - posting. (just check out all the 'awful' people for confirmation of this)  
Players are more than ever involved in FIBS - having become more aware of its past, its present - and now contributing to its future.  Players can come together with ideas for the programmers, programmers can take those ideas and work more collaboratively to produce better and better clients, bots - and even more swish things - that i dont even understand yet!!

Instead of being a hang out visited only by the very technical - it has become a much more inclusive arena - and i think we all feel a lot more positive because of it!


And i'm having one of these - havent got a clue what it is - but i like it !!