Community or snakepit?

[alef]

The whole beauty of FIBS is that in spite of all the petulant whining about who is a flamer/abuser/whiner, nobody can do anything about it

Sorry to wreck your beauty, but people do get banned and censored on FIBS. don, NIHILIST and many others have previously been banned by Patti. I know one player who was recently banned without any prior warning just for playing a 99 in 1. While the apparently whimsical inconsistent banning does irritate me, I have to acknowledge that Patti runs the server so that is her right.

Personally I'm not advocating any new censoring/banning rules for FIBS. My issues to do with further improving FIBS are things like password retrieval and bot settlement for dropped games. On the whole I think the recent improvements are excellent: I love RepBot, TourneyBot and the sound of burper's new FibsCompanion/local proxy and possible ChouetteBot.

As for my warnings issued here on this Board, I've just been reacting to the fear of seeing it fill with petty personalized wars, which above all are actually quite boring. Luckily though I'd say this Board is filling up with posts which are quite lively and fun!

[souptree]

The whole beauty of FIBS is that in spite of all the petulant whining about who is a flamer/abuser/whiner, nobody can do anything about it

Sorry to wreck your beauty, but people do get banned and censored on FIBS. don, NIHILIST and many others have previously been banned by Patti. I know one player who was recently banned without any prior warning just for playing a 99 in 1. While the apparently whimsical inconsistent banning does irritate me, I have to acknowledge that Patti runs the server so that is her right.

Obviously, my post was not intended to include Patti banning people for playing 99 in 1s.  This is a discussion about what takes place in shout, is it not?

If Patti does not wish to perform the role of morality police, my statement stands -- nobody can do anything about supposed rudeness beyond gagging, toggling silent, or going out in the sun.  And I, for one, am profoundly glad about that.

[souptree]

As for my warnings issued here on this Board, I've just been reacting to the fear of seeing it fill with petty personalized wars, which above all are actually quite boring.

Says you!  My first two repbot vouches were for don and NIHILIST.  I'm sure you can all figure out the logic behind that.

This is my point -- you have no divine guidance to make these judgements on behalf of the rest of us.  Given that it is a private messageboard, you have the right to do as you wish, but that which bores you may entertain others or provide them with an insight that may escape you.  If you are going to moderate, please respect that fact, even when you find certain themes tedious, or downright offensive.

Remember the distinction between freedom OF speech and freedom FROM speech.  Which is to be protected at the expense of the other here?

[webrunner]

In the end it is Patti who decide what is right and wrong on Fibs.. and you seem to be fine with that.
But isn't that the same for this board?
Alef and me try to be open minded but also we have an ambition to maken that fantastic place called Fibs even better. You might find that annoying and tell us to go somewhere else if we think that Fibs is to rude....
We might say the same to you about this board if you think it is over moderated.

Don't get me wrong soup.. you know that i like you being here (and all other users)  but i am donating my free time and quite some money in the hosting of this board (and Tourneybot and the mgnu-bots) and i do it for fun. I NEVER said this place shoul dbe an "adjunct" to Fibs. It's just a different place for fibsters to hang out, when they get rired of losing BG all the time

Please all keep venting your opinions. I will not censure them, but most profanities are filtered out by the script. This because i can not think of any thing faul words can add to a discussion. Also downright attacks on someone personally are not appreciated (notice that i don't say "not accepted").

[souptree]

Also downright attacks on someone personally are not appreciated (notice that i don't say "not accepted").

I appreciate your making the distinction between something being "not appreciated" and "not accepted".  I assume that means that those obvious souls who are included at the crux of this discussion will be allowed to continue to refer to each other directly in general forums without receiving "warnings", or other threats of moderator action.

I do agree that in most specific-topic board forums, there would be little or no reason for individual fibsters to refer to other individual fibsters, but I would throw my backing to the side of greatest possible latitude on the part of mods in most of the general forums.  Are we really going to have to constantly debate what is an appropriate reference to another fibster in, say, the Fibsie Award threads?  You may wind up replacing the tedious with the suicide-inducing.

There is room enough for a focused discussion of resolving the dropper problem, and a completely incoherent, fractured whinefest simultaneously.  I posit this as one of the strengths of the fibs community, not a weakness to be "resolved".

Oh, and monitor is a dropper.  :evil:

[webrunner]

I appreciate your making the distinction between something being "not appreciated" and "not accepted".  I assume that means that those obvious souls who are included at the crux of this discussion will be allowed to continue to refer to each other directly in general forums without receiving "warnings", or other threats of moderator action.

It will be tolerated.. but to a certain point.
I have to draw a line somewhere.. but for now that hasn't been necesary (in my opinion).

It seems that most people already realise that writing something here on the forum is something different then shouting it on fibs.. since the post is there still tomorrow.. for everyone to read.. but the shouts are only noticed by a handfull..

I believe the board will regutale itself, nevertheless i keep an eye open, since i am responsible for this board (although not the content).

[deanlikeafrenchman]

It might be added that if you want a more detailed study of the pathologies involved, you could look at http://fibsboard.com/archive/dysfunctional.html.

    Or, if you like your abnormal psychology on an as-applied basis, you could just read Biggles posts.
 

[NIHILIST]

Webrunner, it's your definition of BETTER that is at the heart of the matter. Alef points out that his ideas of betterment have to do with technical issues. I simply don't believe him. He has shown his MORALITY POLICE colors too often and has zero credibility with yours truly.

What makes your idea of what's BETTER for FIBS the be-all/end-all ? How's this for an IMPROVEMENT; request that Patti completely disable shouts. End of flames, end of abuse, end of profanity.

In all honesty, would you prefer that or leving shouts as they are if those were your only two choices ?



NIHI

[webrunner]

NIHI,
Aren't you influencing fibs too whith your shouts and profanities?
Aren't you setting a tone that way.... well.. so do i.
Who says that your opinion should be allowed to be shouted.. and mine not.. that IS ridiculous IMHO.

Why are you guys constantly blaming me and alef for being like a moral police and censoring.. when in fact you are..
Isn't it true that we are saying things that you don't like and that you are trying to shut us up??

I am for freedom of speech..you aren't appearently...

[NIHILIST]

I don't know if I influence a thing with my shouts and ptofanities. I don't know if I set any kind of tone.

Nowhere in all 7 pages of this discussion have I stated or even hinted that my opinion should be shouted and that yours should not. It is ridiculous, and it is even more ridiculous that you should characterize my postings here in the way you did.

I suppose we suspect that you'd like to censor and ban people because you've said so in no uncertain terms. Let me remind you what you wrote when you initiated this discussion regarding language and behavior by zyx that you found offensive;

" I am really getting fed up with these characters and thus i am starting a crusade right here, right now against all the people that are spoiling fibs in my opinion."

You go on to say that you're banning zyx from your tourneys for behavior that's personally offensive to you. That's your right, they're your tourneys, but you can't have it both ways.

You can't ban someone then wonder aloud why anyone would ever think you're acting like a moral cop. If it walks like a duck.........

I also remind you of Alef's warning to me because HE disliked the content of one of my posts here.

It is NOT true that I dislike things you say and am trying to shut you up. I find most of what you two write to be naive and ridiculous, but I've never suggested you be censored and if I wanted to shut you up, I'd simply gag you.

I notice that you never addressed the suggestion I made to improve FIBS for all you folks who find shouts offensive.

DISABLE ALL SHOUTS and the problem vanishes.


NIHI

[baldwin]

It seems so strange that some still think that dictatorships can be replaced with democracy. Usually dictators change seats and share the profits of bussiness as usual. Why would fibs top-down structure differ from the real world? The opposition wants to rule this round. What else is new?

Back to backgammon gents.  

[socksey]

and then i thought "you know, i think at the bottom of all that going on at fibsboard, or at least a very large part of what's being said and not said, is that some players perceive that patti is not enforcing good behavior, standardized bans, etc, because the majority of the transgressors happen to be her friends or people she's on good terms with."

i don't think that is the reason at all!  i think she just either doesn't have the time or doesn't want to take the time to be playground supervisor to the kgb!

socksey




"Eternal nothingness is fine if you happen to be dressed for it." - Woody Allen

[socksey]

from PortWine

So people want to complain about certain people on fibs right now? Sure some of what people say it is definately rude and over the top. Some of it might border on a warning from Patti or a temporary suspension. But you want to talk about things that should get you banned? Take EVERYONE from that 9/11 log who said something so cute and clever and ban them forever.

when 9/11 happened, i was in texas in a hospital waiting room.  my step-dad had been in a very bad accident a couple of days before and was barely clinging to life.  when the crisis was over, and i was home again, someone told me about the shouts on 9/11.  at that time, we could access fibs shouts, so i brought them up and read them.

port, i was horrified!  it is beyond comprehension that some people can be so cruel and unfeeling and i couldn't agree with you more.  it was truely the worst day of fibs history that i'm aware of.

socksey




Make yourself familiar with the angels and behold them frequently in spirit;  for without being seen, they are present with you. - St. Francis De Sales

[PortWine]

Thank you Socks.  I am no great fan of the thought police, but I am also less of a fan of people who cheer on terrorists. :angry:  

[socksey]

from NIHILIST:

I notice that you never addressed the suggestion I made to improve FIBS for all you folks who find shouts offensive.

DISABLE ALL SHOUTS and the problem vanishes.

you didn't read enough.  this has been addressed and readdressed many times.  it would seem, we can't live with it, and we can't live without it.  the answer is, that there is no answer, there is only the search!

socksey




Astronomers say the universe is finite, which is not a very comforting thought for those people who can't remember where they leave things. - Unknown

[socksey]

from NIHILIST:

I don't know if I influence a thing with my shouts and ptofanities. I don't know if I set any kind of tone

you have many tones, nihi.  most of them seem rude, offensive, and having great shock value at first look.  i suppose one could use a shock if one were having a heart attack.  however, to give you your real due, i must admit, i have witnessed some excellent tone influencing on fibs when you were a giver and a teacher, i.e., history lessons, serious politiaca debate, computer technology sharing, music sharing, sharewaring, etc.

knowing you has been like riding on a rollercoaster.  one never knows whether one will be climbing to the top and sailing onward and upward or whether one will break through a barrier only to crash and burn.

so, yes, i would say you do set a kind of tone.  i'd prefer more sailing.

socksey




"Life's most urgent question is: what are you doing for others?" - Martin Luther King

[socksey]

from souptree:

There is room enough for a focused discussion of resolving the dropper problem, and a completely incoherent, fractured whinefest simultaneously. I posit this as one of the strengths of the fibs community, not a weakness to be "resolved".

Oh, and monitor is a dropper.Ã,  FPRIVATE "TYPE=PICT;ALT=firedevil.gif"

i still say..............DEATH TO DROPPERS!!!!!!!!!!! :angry:

socksey




Good judgment comes from experience, and a lot of that comes from bad judgment. - Will Rogers

[socksey]

souptree, the souper douper pooper scooper, wrote:

Says you! My first two repbot vouches were for don and NIHILIST. I'm sure you can all figure out the logic behind that.

you whine and b---h, moan and groan because repbot is unreliabl!.  you know it is true!  you ARE the the cause and effect.

i love u anyway.  

socksey




"One of the advantages of being disorderly is that one is constantly making exciting discoveries." - A. A. Milne

[socksey]

from souptree:

Personally, I think if this fibsboard is supposed to be an adjunct to FIBS, the same dynamic should be allowed to persist. I agree with NIHILIST, that it is well within the rights of the owners / moderators of this message board to play petulant and pick up their ball and go home, but with no disrespect to alef, webrunner, or any TDs, nor indeed to anyone who is offended by free expression, FIBS requires neither moderator, nor profanity filter, and neither does this board. Adults ought to be able to handle a little discomfort.

adults, yes.  however, we are the internet.  we have children here, too.

please don't forget the children.  we can't keep them out.  how shall we influence them?  

but why would anyone choose to inflict discomfort on anyone, adult or child?  what is the point?  why destroy something when you can build something beautiful?  are we a bunch of sadomasochists here?  i don't get it.

socksey




"Everyone is a genius at least once a year. The real geniuses simply have their bright ideas closer together." - Georg Christoph Lichtenberg

[socksey]

deanlikeafrenchman says:

The most useful posts have been about the nature of anarchy. Its an abstract
thesis topic, not a lifestyle. If you have a whole bunch of anarchy in your life, the
phrase "short, nasty, harsh and brutal" is only the beginning. But small doses of
anarchy can show you a lot. Thus we have the gloriously dysfunctional fibs, with
fraudulent ratings, bellowed nonsense, oafish boasting, authority figure looking the other way, shocking language, and everything. Visit it, learn from it, be glad its a
good window, in at least some ways, on how not to be.

Have I told you about dailygammon?

i wish i had said that!

i regularly play on dailygammon, but not as "socksey".  it's where i go to have a higher rating, and to be quiet.  

socksey




"The world is my lobster." - Henry J. Tillman