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text-fu ?

Author Topic: text-fu ?  (Read 3711 times)

Offline padski

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text-fu ?
« on: December 30, 2006, 08:59:19 PM »
When I log into my Fibs with my 110 baud teletype, I use tinyfugue, the text client that lets me edit my lines at a snail's pace and still be able to see what's going on. (joking aside, I really do)

I'm aware that tf is very powerfull, but I've never much explored that side of it.

conversely, GUIs often seem to feature excrutiatingly impoverished text input, sometimes even lacking the most basic history features, but I'd like to improve on that.

what features do the real power users around here use that they just can't get from fibs gui clients ?

what kind of scripting do you want embedded into your command line ?

Are there any such features that you'd like but have yet to find in any client ?

where can I get an emacs mode for fibs ?

text interface users, show us your text-fu!

FIBS Board backgammon forum

text-fu ?
« on: December 30, 2006, 08:59:19 PM »

Offline don

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Re: text-fu ?
« Reply #1 on: December 31, 2006, 08:23:33 AM »
LOL!  I actually have a 110 baud TTY machine, Padski!  I think it still works!  It makes noise when you plug it in.  I bought it for $10.00 in a garage sale and made my own RS-232 hookup to my Commodore 64!  I've been fooling around with FIBS' GUI's for a long time with varying degrees of functionality.  I actually wrote one for the C=64 on a dare.  I've also checked out most FIBS' GUIs.

I'm sure you know my opinion that clients should both emulate and use FIBS.  FIBS is not going to change any time soon, so it's both the source of behavior and the source of information on how FIBS acts.  Like I say, I've fooled around with it and still am, but I've never produced anything I'd let loose on the unsuspecting public.  I admire the work of those who put together a completed and user friendly (hmmm) client.  I haven't done so yet.  (Don't hold your breath.)

I've seen clients come and go with sounds and wonderful looking boards.  The thing I look for in boards is resizing, and I don't care about sounds.

Windows is what I'm after.  I want to size 'em and put 'em where I want 'em, and contain what I want.  If I want to preserve a conversation I have with Padski, before, during or after it happens, I want to be able to open a window and specify it.  If I want to include another user, say Donski, after the fact, Kaboom and it's there, with comments interposed at the time they happend!  If I want to watch a game using look, I want to be able to resize the window, and put it where I want it.  I want to tab between windows and prioritize what's on top.

I don't know if you think it desirable, but I also like to occasionally transmit files (poems, songs, even worse) like my infamous Macarena:
  • WHILE {$LINE; C/FIBS/MACARENA.TXT
  •     "shout "; $LINE
  •     PAUSE(3)
  • WEND
That's the actual text file my first GUI for FIBS interpreted to the dismay of many.  Do you want to give your users the ability to create such a monster?  I have a later version, simply shout/kibitz/tell/message $file.  I had the macro files like that on browse, but if I mistyped a character in 'em it'd crash, very sloppy programming.  I'm experimenting with learning agents now.

Possibly the reason I've never made public my GUIs is because I'm never happy with 'em.  I think my learning agent approach is interesting, a supervisor bot that notes what you do between windows.  I wish you luck on your project!

--
don
So many string dimensions, so little space time...

FIBS Board backgammon forum

Re: text-fu ?
« Reply #1 on: December 31, 2006, 08:23:33 AM »

Offline padski

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Re: text-fu ?
« Reply #2 on: January 10, 2007, 09:29:26 PM »
Don,

thanks for helping with this.  Please accept my apologies for not answering sooner, but we were chatting on another thread.

I particularly value you input, not least because you've been on fibs for a long time and written client software yourself.

We've spoken at length about the values that go into the making of a client, and despite our minor points of disagreement, I think something that comes out of that is that we both clearly care about such things. As stepfibs matures, which is going to take some time, I hope you will be pleasantly surprised by the way the defaults are respectful of fibs and fibs users, and I hope I get your input on that when the time comes.

To reply specifically to a couple of things:

LOL!  I actually have a 110 baud TTY machine, Padski!  I think it still works!  It makes noise when you plug it in.  I bought it for $10.00 in a garage sale and made my own RS-232 hookup to my Commodore 64!

I confess I've never had one, only the part about tinyfugue is true :-)  The oldest machine I have kicking around now is an apple][e which I picked up s/h out of sentimentality, but I've never gotten around to doing much with it.

Quote
If I want to preserve a conversation I have with Padski, before, during or after it happens, I want to be able to open a window and specify it.  If I want to include another user, say Donski, after the fact, Kaboom and it's there, with comments interposed at the time they happend!

I'm very interested in getting to a point where the client can log the whole session in detail to a backend (and I'm thinking configurable, but a database as an option).  I confess I'm more excited right now by what could be done with the analysis of the backgammon, but I recognise the importance of preserving the chat in context, and I can certainly imagine occassionally using chat history facilities myself, and I fancy they may be very popular with users.

Perhaps you, or someone else, will correct me on this, because I've seen only a few fibs clients, but am I right in thinking that there is no published client that offers facilities like this yet ?  Although I wonder if this (the text side of it anyway) is the kind of thing that might be relatively easy on a client like tf.

Quote
I don't know if you think it desirable, but I also like to occasionally transmit files (poems, songs, even worse) like my infamous Macarena:
  • WHILE {$LINE; C/FIBS/MACARENA.TXT
  •     "shout "; $LINE
  •     PAUSE(3)
  • WEND
That's the actual text file my first GUI for FIBS interpreted to the dismay of many.  Do you want to give your users the ability to create such a monster? 

monster?  there is a fine tradition of sing-a-longs on fibs :-)

I must say that its not so much a question for me of trying to second guess what creative things people might do with new tools as it is trying to create good tools to empower people being creative.

I do recognise that there is a point at which a technology has to be handled responsibly, and that there are such considerations in respect of fibs.

My feeling at the moment is that incorporating scriptability into stepfibs is desirable and doable without causing a problem, but it is an area where I will tread carefully, and am keen to hear from the community.

Quote
I'm experimenting with learning agents now.
Possibly the reason I've never made public my GUIs is because I'm never happy with 'em.  I think my learning agent approach is interesting, a supervisor bot that notes what you do between windows.

That really sounds like interesting work. I'd certainly like to hear more about it, even if you can't be persuaded to publish.

Personally, I find it a tough discipline publishing in this way.  The temptation to hold back commits because I'm not really happy with them is very strong, but hopefully in the end I will get to a point where I am happy with it.  Already I'm at the point where stepfibs is the client I use day-to-day, and (fingers-crossed) I seem to have cracked the worst of the bugs that were crashing my client and causing me to have to leave and resume, and that is very gatifying, even if stepfibs is still too buggy and basic to be of much interest to anyone but a developer.

Quote
I wish you luck on your project!

Thank you, Don.  Likewise, I wish you luck with yours.

Regards,
Paddy

Offline don

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Re: text-fu ?
« Reply #3 on: January 11, 2007, 05:43:12 AM »
Hey Paddy.

It's true one of the great deficiencies I see in bots is involved with shout, tell, chat and players.
..., but I recognise the importance of preserving the chat in context, and I can certainly imagine occassionally using chat history facilities myself, and I fancy they may be very popular with users.
IMO a good bot has the ability to filter into a new window any or all of 'em plus filtering for players.  It's not hard to do.  I've discussed this with a few users who wish they had such capability.

Regarding the learning agent, it's more of a patch on Windoze that I'm working on, an agent that sees me doing repetitive things and figures out what I'm trying to do...

BTW:  I just wrote a little routine that will open and scale/tial in a windoze as many "look"-matches as I want at an arbitrary rate of one "look"/second.  It's kinda fun to watch the match positions change.

--
don
So many string dimensions, so little space time...

FIBS Board backgammon forum

Re: text-fu ?
« Reply #3 on: January 11, 2007, 05:43:12 AM »

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