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TBot habeus corpus

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Offline don

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TBot habeus corpus
« on: June 30, 2004, 07:48:19 AM »
Hey TBot moderators:

I'm attempting to take a deep breath here and actually communicate with your group.  A lot of my communications have been reactions to what I perceive as slights by your group, or individual members of it.  I would like to suggest a discussion, yes a (public) discussion, of my perceived sins against the TBot community.  I suggest taking my complaints/sins one-at-a-time, and actually discussing them.  One of my points in creating my sequential list was to provide perspective.  If you as a group can convince me that I'm wrong on any specific issue, I will admit it and we will procede.  Some of you who know me know also that I'm one of the few FIBSters willing to admit it when I'm wrong.

I choose as the first issue to discuss, the issue of diane's complaint against me for kibitzing during a match.  I select this issue because right after it happened, I was globally banned from TourneyBot, and was given no explanation of why or how long.  I am willing to discuss any other issue, if people will stick to the point, but my general complaint is that there have been no conclusive discussions on any single issues.  (I obviously don't know what the discussion was amongst yourselves, but all I've seen in public is "I'm right, your wrong" with flames from a couple of TBot moderators.)

As far as I know, I made a friendly kibitz, a kibitz that didn't bother either player in the match.  In fact, it was responded to positively by one player in the match.  Both players admitted it was no problem.  The use of the kibitz command by watchers is certainly subject to discretion on the part of the kibitzer, but can be controlled only by the players in the match.  In my opinion, diane's comment to me was not only rude and uncalled for, but silly.  I suspect the inherent hostility in it was premeditated, given the public history of comments on FIBSBoard forums.  I think she had a chip on her shoulder.  I admit I reacted to it at the time.  Perhaps I could have, should have, dealt with it better, but we all know the atmosphere surrounding me and you moderators at that time.  I suspect that diane's comment was influenced by it too.  I was unaware of any rules of TourneyBot conduct that I was expected to abide by.  The request by the moderator, diane, to hold the match for 20-30 minutes while she tried to figure out how to get me blinded or gagged by either player (or do it herself for all I know) was completely out of line.  Both players refused to blind/gag, BTW.  In fact, if diane had not made such a silly comment to me ("I don't allow kibitzes"), there never would have been a problem.

Anyway, I believe that diane tried to make an issue where there was no issue.  I ignore her motives because I can't prove what I think they were.  But I offer as proof of my position on this issue posts made in the forum, "kibitzing during a tourney":  On April 14, diane raised the issue of others kibitzing -- she didn't like it; On April 18 socksey agreed; On April 19 burper made the point I'm trying to make here; On April 19 socksey changed her mind and agreed with burper; On April 19 diane agreed with burper (and me) too.

By the way, here's burper's take:  "The players in the match can always use gag/blind if they care. If they don't care, why should the TD?"

On May 15 diane reopened the issue, and threatened to disclose a log of the incident.  I've yet to see the log, but if it is complete, I welcome it.  Like I say, the worst I did was react to diane's silly comment and actions, and I'm willing to admit it.  I have yet to hear diane admit any fault whatsoever for creating the incident, or prolonging it.

I am not singling out diane in this discussion, I just picked it as a proximate cause of at least one TBot moderator who took an action which  I've never understood, and apparantly supported by the group.  I welcome and respect any comments, but I deride in advance the flames which are the normal result I get when I have the audacity to criticize the actions of a TourneyBot moderator.  Please stick to the issue here, or open another forum for a new indictment of me.

--
don
 
So many string dimensions, so little space time...

FIBS Board backgammon forum

TBot habeus corpus
« on: June 30, 2004, 07:48:19 AM »

PortWine

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TBot habeus corpus
« Reply #1 on: June 30, 2004, 11:16:14 AM »
don,

Here is a direct reply for which you need not thank me.  I'll keep it simple.

You keep bringing up the same gripes over and over when the TDs have all gone trough considerable lengths to discuss them with you.  You have spent an incredible amount of time "documenting" perceived wrongs against you and seem to be waging a public campaign to prove that you are right.  I no longer care to debate you since you never care to see anyone else's point of view except your own.

In addition your attempts to twist words and meanings makes the "debate" even harder.  Case in point, Kari_Grandi got your to agree to stop harassing me.  I wrongly thought it was alef who brokered that agreement.  Nevertheless, with one single ban message from me, no message on fibsboard, no communication from me at all, you started to harass me the first time we were on together.  When I said that you had promised alef not to bother me you took advantage and said "I made no such agreement with alef" knowing that it was actually kari-grandi who you made that agreement with.   It is all documented, just like you documented everything.

The bottom line is that you are a liar and can not be trusted.  You agreed not to join my tourneys, and then you sneak in at the last minute.  What is your deal?  There are plenty of other tourneys.  I don;t want someone who just can only send me negative messages about how I do my job.  I just don;t want you.  Then, when I ban you pre-emptively you say I am using tourneybot as a flame tool.  Make up your mind!  You gave your word not to join and did it three times after you gave your word.  Obviously your word is meaningless.

don, don;t go away mad, just go away.  There are plenty of other tourneys for you to join.  Just don;t enter my tourneys and don;t take the bans as flames.  Think of them as little reminders of your dishonesty.

Stop sending me messages whenever I log in.  Stop sending me tells when I am trying to play.  Stop enetering my tourneys.  Stop creating new threads on fibsboard about how you are so very right.  Just go away.  You are not being picked on.  It is quite the opposite.  You are a stalker.  Nobody cares about your suggestions at this point.  You have rendered whatever you have to say moot at this point!

I know this is a vain attempt to reason with you, and I am violating my rule against ignoring you (duh, I suggest portwine look up ignore - that shows how willing you are to resolve things!)

stalk2    ( P )  Pronunciation Key  (stôk)
v. stalked, stalk·ing, stalks
v. intr.
To walk with a stiff, haughty, or angry gait: stalked off in a huff.
To move threateningly or menacingly.
To track prey or quarry.

v. tr.
To pursue by tracking stealthily.
To follow or observe (a person) persistently, especially out of obsession or derangement.

Sound familiar?  JUST GO AWAY!


PortWine

FIBS Board backgammon forum

TBot habeus corpus
« Reply #1 on: June 30, 2004, 11:16:14 AM »

Offline Biggles

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TBot habeus corpus
« Reply #2 on: June 30, 2004, 07:05:34 PM »
Hmmmmm....what is this?

The same complaints that I and others have been having about don are now rearing their ugly head with the rest of the FIBS community?


Don.......the only common item here, has been, is and always will be.....YOU

The players change, but don goes on.......and on.......and on.........and on.....

Get a clue, get a life, look in the mirror....

just GET HELP


Your good friend,

Biggles
(the most popular Fibster)
« Last Edit: June 30, 2004, 07:07:27 PM by Biggles »
[size=8]Winner of the inaugural Master League Tournament and countless other league and mini-tournaments......[/size]

Offline dorbel

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TBot habeus corpus
« Reply #3 on: July 01, 2004, 02:40:58 AM »
If you are consistently in conflict with other people , it's probably not their fault. I have only ever had to play one match with Don. It required multiple efforts to get it started, several more to get it completed and an age to get him to report the result. Along the way I had to put up with the extraordinarily irritating asides that don produces as naturally as breathing. His trick, which he probably does unconsciously, is to get up your nose and then act the innocent. This match was easily the most irritating that I have had in the course of playing about 200 league and tournament matches on fibs. Coincidence? Go away don and stop trying to play (i.e. have fun) with people who don't want to play with you. After all, your easy going charm and ineffable rightness must surely render you attractive to huge numbers of people surely? Unfortunately, none of them seem to be fibsters. Perhaps an account on another server, far away from us is the answer.

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TBot habeus corpus
« Reply #3 on: July 01, 2004, 02:40:58 AM »

Offline don

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TBot habeus corpus
« Reply #4 on: July 01, 2004, 10:31:52 AM »
You are entirely off the topic of discussion, PortWine.  In case you didn't notice, I was attempting to confine a discussion to a single issue.  It may be an old issue, but I have yet to see any "discussion" on it -- Only flames.  I chose this topic because it was the proximate cause for burper's ban.  I've made a polite post with a request for information and viewpoints to start this forum, and have seen none.  I can only conclude that I am correct in this case, and diane owes me and two FIBSters a public apology.  I suspect burper may owe an apology too.

I "keep bringing up the same gripes over and over" in your words, because the reaction you have made here is typical.  Flames, not reason.

I am attempting to resolve some issues using polite conversation, Port.  If you cannot contribute, I'd suggest you keep quiet.  In the event you failed to notice, the topic is diane's complaint against me for kibitzing during a tourney she was running.  Neither yours, nor Biggles' nor Dorbel's comments have anything to do with the topic.

Thanks for the suggestion for a new topic.  I'll get right on it, while waiting for the apologies due me and at least two others on this forum, or some actual communications about the issue I've raised.

--
don
 
So many string dimensions, so little space time...

Offline socksey

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TBot habeus corpus
« Reply #5 on: July 01, 2004, 01:37:09 PM »
Once again, let ME address the issue, and I say, "once again" because I have personally discussed this issue of diane with you, repeating myself, at least 6 times that I can remember, not to mention all the other times in the forums.

The TD's are volunteers.  They get no pay and very little thanks.  They put up with idiots, like you, who won't leave them alone.  Now having said that, I will repeat again...................The TD's of Fibs are allowed to ban anyone they choose, for any reason they decide.  Tourneybot sends a message to a banee each time the person is banned from a tournament.  TB is programmed to do this.  It is automatic.  PortWine is within his rights to ban you from his tournaments.  The messages Tourneybot send to you are not a form of harrassment.  

Diane has a right to establish her own rules within her tournaments.  You, as an OBSERVER of a tournament match, when asked to whisper or shout instead of kibitz within a match, by the TD, you MUST either whisper or shout, and NOT kibitz, or ELSE you will be considered a NUISANCE and a candidate for banning from the tournaments.   It doesn't matter what the players think or how they feel  about your kibitz, Don.  Vqs was globally banned for the same offense within one of my tournaments for basically the same reason.  When Diane is directing her own tournament, her instruction will be followed.  

I don't know how to make it any more clear to you.  At this point, all I feel like doing is to knock your lights out, but since I am not into physical violence, I only say this to demonstrate to you my exasperation over you and these issues you continue to beat to death.

If you are unable to drop this now, I think Vic is right about what he said in one of the other threads.  I seriously think you need some psyche help, Don.  Serious.
Judging from all the personal messages you have left me, Port, diane, and others pertaining to these Tourneybot issues, plus all the emails, and the posts to this public forum, this is obsessiveness to the max.  Do yourself and us a favor, and get some help.

socksey




"It is customary in democratic countries to deplore the expenditure of armament as conflicting with the requirements of the social services.  There is a tendency to forget that the most important social service that a government can do for its people is to keep them alive and free." - Sir John C. Slessor, Marshalkl, RAF, 1897-1979





         

Offline don

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TBot habeus corpus
« Reply #6 on: July 01, 2004, 06:27:09 PM »
socks, I don't disagree with you about the benefits to FIBS in general thanks to the efforts of TBot moderators.  I also agree that diane has the right to keep me from playing in her tourneys.

However, as I've pointed out, the general consensus here is correct:  Control of kibitzing can only be done by the players of a match.  It is not possible for a match moderator to do anything about it.  burper said it, and you agreed with him on it.

I've also pointed out that my one kibitz was friendly and did not bother either player in the match.  diane's request was not only silly but rude.  If she had not made it, there would have been no problem.  If she had dropped it, there would BE no problem now.  Instead, she made an issue of it.

Are you now taking back your words regarding kibitzing, and suggesting that moderators can actually do something about it?  Where are these rules listed that I'm supposed to obey?  And why do they contradict what you, burper and PortWine seem to think is right and practical?  Why do TBot moderators kibitz during matches?  Why can't a moderator be blinded and gagged when that moderator is being a distraction and won't stop kibitzing when requested?

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don
 
So many string dimensions, so little space time...

Offline burper

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TBot habeus corpus
« Reply #7 on: July 01, 2004, 06:42:47 PM »
Now you are exposing your true intentions! lol

Nice try don, but PortWine, socksey, diane and myself are all together on this, as well as several other active TDs.
You are the only one able to invent any wiggle room for debate.
You kibitzed. The TD asked you nicely to stop. You didn't. End of story.
Noone else can see how to complicate matters.

Let's see, how else can you try to get the TD's to disagree amongst themselves....hmmmm
You game is becoming very transparent and boring.

Now, is anyone playing backgammon today?
« Last Edit: July 01, 2004, 06:45:50 PM by burper »

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TBot habeus corpus
« Reply #7 on: July 01, 2004, 06:42:47 PM »

Offline lewscannon

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TBot habeus corpus
« Reply #8 on: July 01, 2004, 07:04:50 PM »
Quote
Let's see, how else can you try to get the TD's to disagree amongst themselves....hmmmm
 
Well, I think that sox and diane look a lot better in ballerina outfits than burps & port. Let's see if that starts something.

Offline diane

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TBot habeus corpus
« Reply #9 on: July 01, 2004, 07:12:52 PM »
I must disagree - everyone looks better in a ballerina outfit than me - and i pity the reckless fool who tried to get me to wear one  :D  
Never give up on the things that make you smile

Offline alef

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« Reply #10 on: July 01, 2004, 10:36:28 PM »
Not really sure anyone looks *good* in a ballerina outfit but I suspect with a few beers both PortWine and burper could be talked into trying them on. I once wore a yellow dress in a public march, was good fun. At Mardi Gras in New Orleans it's pretty much required.

Offline don

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TBot habeus corpus
« Reply #11 on: July 02, 2004, 05:26:14 AM »
This is pretty much a dead issue now, except for the flames.  I have only one more question:  Has anybody actually seen this log that diane says she has?

 
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TBot habeus corpus
« Reply #11 on: July 02, 2004, 05:26:14 AM »

Offline burper

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« Reply #12 on: July 02, 2004, 12:20:50 PM »
yes. it is very revealing. you should hope it never surfaces publically.

Offline gogogiz

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TBot habeus corpus
« Reply #13 on: July 02, 2004, 06:42:19 PM »
:D  whatever turns you on i say, hehehe

hiya all and i thought i would add a bit on this subject.....although too much has already been added already.... i hope it ends now......

don, i am with socksey burper diane and port and the rest or the t.d's on this..... socksey post sums it all up in 1
but then so does everybody elses....
how long does it have to go on for b4 we can get some peace and move on with our lives, this is boring me to death....
the fact is that this is now or should be finished with..
its not a life or death matter i suggest that if any more problems happen with you don then talk about it with me but pls let this discussion go.... it's over, a dead issue, im bored with it and so is everyone else..

if you really want to carry on this issue then talk to me about it and leave the other t.d's alone, we all have better things to to than keep talking about this issue

thanks, gogogiz
 B)  

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