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Game 1, move 5: Herd to move 4-4

Author Topic: Game 1, move 5: Herd to move 4-4  (Read 7723 times)

Offline diane

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Game 1, move 5: Herd to move 4-4
« on: July 26, 2010, 10:52:35 AM »
A few obvious moves..

After the 2-1, Herd rolled 6-1 and moved 13/7, 8/7

r_monk rolled 2-1 and made the 4 point, now Herd has a 4-4 to place, which has a few alternative moves to think about.



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Game 1, move 5: Herd to move 4-4
« on: July 26, 2010, 10:52:35 AM »

Offline ah_clem

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Re: Game 1, move 5: Herd to move 4-4
« Reply #1 on: July 26, 2010, 01:46:31 PM »
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« Last Edit: July 26, 2010, 03:58:01 PM by ah_clem »

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Re: Game 1, move 5: Herd to move 4-4
« Reply #1 on: July 26, 2010, 01:46:31 PM »

Offline ah_clem

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Re: Game 1, move 5: Herd to move 4-4
« Reply #2 on: July 26, 2010, 07:26:07 PM »
So, anybody else want to weigh in on why their choice is their choice?

Offline stog

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Re: Game 1, move 5: Herd to move 4-4
« Reply #3 on: July 26, 2010, 07:42:00 PM »
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Re: Game 1, move 5: Herd to move 4-4
« Reply #3 on: July 26, 2010, 07:42:00 PM »

Offline diane

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Re: Game 1, move 5: Herd to move 4-4
« Reply #4 on: July 26, 2010, 09:35:42 PM »
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I'm with you stog!! but we certainly have a split vote here again!
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Offline ah_clem

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Re: Game 1, move 5: Herd to move 4-4
« Reply #5 on: July 26, 2010, 10:22:01 PM »
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Offline diane

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Re: Game 1, move 5: Herd to move 4-4
« Reply #6 on: July 27, 2010, 04:07:30 AM »
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Offline ah_clem

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Re: Game 1, move 5: Herd to move 4-4
« Reply #7 on: July 27, 2010, 02:13:48 PM »
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Re: Game 1, move 5: Herd to move 4-4
« Reply #7 on: July 27, 2010, 02:13:48 PM »

Offline socksey

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Re: Game 1, move 5: Herd to move 4-4
« Reply #8 on: July 27, 2010, 03:52:14 PM »
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socksey



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Offline ah_clem

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Re: Game 1, move 5: Herd to move 4-4
« Reply #9 on: July 27, 2010, 04:53:44 PM »

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Offline socksey

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Re: Game 1, move 5: Herd to move 4-4
« Reply #10 on: July 28, 2010, 02:40:39 PM »
Oop!  Guess I misread that one, ah_clem.   :mellow:  Maybe that choice should have been included, tho.   ;)

socksey



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Offline ah_clem

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Re: Game 1, move 5: Herd to move 4-4
« Reply #11 on: July 28, 2010, 03:16:38 PM »
Oop!  Guess I misread that one, ah_clem.   :mellow:  Maybe that choice should have been included, tho.   ;)


You can always ask for a voting option to be added.  If the active moderator isn't around, any other mod can add it.  You might even have the rights yourself.

There's a balance to be struck between offering an overwhelming number of options (Trice claims to have constructed a position that had several thousand possible moves) and leaving off some potentially good ones that people may want to vote for.  It's probably better to err on the "less" side and add as necessary. 

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Re: Game 1, move 5: Herd to move 4-4
« Reply #11 on: July 28, 2010, 03:16:38 PM »

Offline diane

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Re: Game 1, move 5: Herd to move 4-4
« Reply #12 on: July 28, 2010, 10:01:35 PM »
You might even have the rights yourself.

Yes, all moderators can do it...and Socksey has opened the 'edit poll' option on other matches, but not as yet made any changes.

Moves like this, there are as you say, a lot of possibilities and too many consfuses people and splits the vote, so you have 9 votes for 9 moves.  Dorbel has suggested that we dont put any options in and let people post their own...I cant say as I agree with that, as newbies are here to learn.  What you can infer though, is that if I haven't put an option in there, it wasn't in the top 5 moves suggested by gnu - or had an error rate greater than 5ish.
Gnu has been known to be wrong though, so you can always argue for any move if there is reason for it  ;)
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Offline ah_clem

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Re: Game 1, move 5: Herd to move 4-4
« Reply #13 on: July 30, 2010, 12:30:46 PM »
rollout

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Offline socksey

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Re: Game 1, move 5: Herd to move 4-4
« Reply #14 on: July 30, 2010, 02:11:03 PM »
Yes, all moderators can do it...and Socksey has opened the 'edit poll' option on other matches, but not as yet made any changes.

Ummm........recalling the last and only time I changed anything on your posting and got my hand slapped soundly..........I believe it was a spelling correction done before you were appointed global moderator.........I wouldn't dare to change anything you have posted, my dear, except, of course, it was something against the board policy.   :ohmy:  No!  Actually, I was hoping you would offer that option yourself.   :yes:  But, Noooooooooooo.  That's OK, tho.  As you wish.

socksey



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Offline diane

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Re: Game 1, move 5: Herd to move 4-4
« Reply #15 on: July 31, 2010, 12:07:39 AM »
Ummm........recalling the last and only time I changed anything on your posting and got my hand slapped soundly..........I wouldn't dare to change anything you have posted, my dear, except, of course, it was something against the board policy.   :ohmy:  No!  Actually, I was hoping you would offer that option yourself.   :yes:  But, Noooooooooooo.  That's OK, tho.  As you wish.

Hmm..so you dont recall this discussion then..

Ummmmmmmmm...........I tried editing, but I didn't see an option for changing a vote, only one for setting them all back to zero.......so, if you don't mind, tell me how I have the power, please?   :)

You can re read it here..

http://www.fibsboard.com/fibsboard-forum-match-4/game-4-move-24-forum-5-5/msg21877/#msg21877

When this started, I put in a statement 'you can add options or ask for them added' on each and every poll..I have stopped posting that now, as most people seem to have the hang of it. And, given the previous discussion above, I thought you in particular would now know how to do it.

The time difference for me now means I am genuinely not around at times and able to respond to requests to change things.  By the time I come back to check the progress of a poll, it is almost over and if a decision is clear cut, I wont start adding options at that time.  If you do see something you want in that isn't..you have express permission from me to add it..how's that  ;) 

But try to restrain yourself on correcting spelling and grammar...we have different views on that  :laugh: :laugh:
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Re: Game 1, move 5: Herd to move 4-4
« Reply #15 on: July 31, 2010, 12:07:39 AM »

Offline socksey

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Re: Game 1, move 5: Herd to move 4-4
« Reply #16 on: July 31, 2010, 02:48:00 AM »
diane,

Your reference was to my changing a vote, not for adding options.  I'm sorry if I caused you added time. 
I'm also sorry, I am too dumb to understand you.

socksey



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Offline diane

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Re: Game 1, move 5: Herd to move 4-4
« Reply #17 on: July 31, 2010, 05:00:56 AM »
diane, Your reference was to my changing a vote, not for adding options. 

My reference was to you extending a voting period...or editing a poll...I was quite clear in another post to you on that thread...

I guess that is the other problem with a short voting period, not everyone gets here.

For future reference - you have the power to open the poll and give it a bit longer - so you could have fixed it.
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Offline Zorba

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Re: Game 1, move 5: Herd to move 4-4
« Reply #18 on: August 03, 2010, 10:41:39 PM »
rollout

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Offline ah_clem

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Re: Game 1, move 5: Herd to move 4-4
« Reply #19 on: August 04, 2010, 03:10:51 PM »

8/4 for the last four instead of 13/9 leaves clearly less return shots.  ... Note how leaving the blot on 8 gives monk just a 5-3 from the bar ("duplicated" with the open points), the blot on nine gives 3-6 and 5-4. Not to mention the extra blot on the midpoint, giving 1-1, 3-1 and 5-1 for another 5 shots.


Hmmmm.  5-4 is not a hit from the bar, it's a dance. 1-5 is likewise not a hit (unless you count on him hitting loose in his homeboard and exposing two blots.) So that's only four three extra shots, not ten nine.  

I'm sure that four extra shots is part of the picture, but I've done some thinking about this position and here's why I think 8/4 is superior to 13/9:

After making the five prime, our next objective should be making the three point to keep him from anchoring there and to move towards a closeout (slotting the point behind the 5 prime is usually the right thing to do, but here we want to prevent the anchor and that's more important than simply building a full prime) .  Both moves aim three builders at the three point, but the checker on the nine is 6 pips away and sixes are needed to escape the back man.  Thus 13/9 duplicates sixes.  This duplication is what makes 13/9 inferior.

This, combined with the four extra shots makes it more clear.  Holding the midpoint is probably worth something too.  I'm still not sure whether there's some timing benefits one way or the other.



(dispensing with the spoiler tags as this position was decided a long time ago...)

« Last Edit: August 04, 2010, 06:20:29 PM by ah_clem »

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