Match Triple_X vs deuce

[NIHILIST]

Why does the analysis surprise anyone ? Both are FIBSrated in the 1500s, the match and analysis confirm it.

NIHI

[webrunner]

Could someone run this match through snowie ?
That would make a point    

[Triple_X]

What you so conveniently call bragging, deuce, I call stating a mere fact.
I did play these guys, mostly in chouettes of 5/6/7 people, for money, in a bar/restaurant we all frequented, from roughly ten to five years ago.
In total, I play for some 30 yrs now.

And as far as humanity's opinion about me is concerned, you might be very surprised.
Oh yes, and comparing a bunch of yes-men, circling around a few loudmouth's at FIBS
to humanity is a rather megalomanic reflection of the truth, wouldn't you say ?

But then you all loooooooove half-truths ..... right ?!


greetz,

Triple_X

"The rivers of blood are flowing beneath our feet, young man".....
"I have been to hell, you have only read about it

[diane]

Why does the analysis surprise anyone ? Both are FIBSrated in the 1500s, the match and analysis confirm it.

That was the point...no one was surprised - oddly enough not even xxx, who knew the analysis wouldnt favour him - since it is wrong, and he is a great, but misunderstood player.

[inim]

To back the obvious common opinion with statistics, I tortured my CPU and analyzed all games I ever played against triple_x.  The 82 pt -- played in matches of mostly 11pt --  cover 8.5% of the 960 games triple_x ever did on fibs. Analyis was done using GnuBG 0.14.3 in grandmaster mode with 3ply.

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Match    Rating     Rating     Match
Length   Triple_X   inim       Result
11       1661.1     1710.5     11:10
7        1722.3     1478.8     05:09
7        1258.7     1666.7     01:07
11       1654.5     1575.9     11:03
11       1615.8     1668.3     10:13
5        1790.1     1806.4     08:01
5        1557.4     1699.1     01:06
11       1676.8     1680.7     07:11
3        1757.4     1652.2     02:03
11       1542.6     1644.6     05:12


The arithmetic mean of the ratings is triple_x 1623.67 and inim 1658.32. For my part, I'd be happy if my real fibs rating was that high. Nevertheless, the proportions look correct to me, as the real current fibs ratings are triple_x 1564.34 and inim 1628.83. In terms of win/lose, the outcome is triple_x 27pt vs. inim 55pt (counting each game simply to be worth its length in points).

In case anybody wants do more sophisticated analysis, I happily send *.mat and *.sfg files on request. To draw any conclusions from my pile of numbers is left as an exercise to the reader.

inim

[webrunner]

What you so conveniently call bragging, deuce, I call stating a mere fact.
I did play these guys, mostly in chouettes of 5/6/7 people, for money, in a bar/restaurant we all frequented, from roughly ten to five years ago.
In total, I play for some 30 yrs now.

And as far as humanity's opinion about me is concerned, you might be very surprised.
Oh yes, and comparing a bunch of yes-men, circling around a few loudmouth's at FIBS
to humanity is a rather megalomanic reflection of the truth, wouldn't you say ?

But then you all loooooooove half-truths ..... right ?!


greetz,

Triple_X

"The rivers of blood are flowing beneath our feet, young man".....
"I have been to hell, you have only read about it

Can't we play a 15 point match Triple_X?
If you win you are a great player and i will announce that publicly on the front page of this forum. If you lose you will do a humble apology to duece

That is the way you like it huh?

 

[diane]

OOOooohhhh, gauntlets all over the floor now  

Do not play that match unless i am around to watch - pleeeeasse - i can then log it in case anyone wants analysis done  

But apart from that - just wanna watch!!

[Triple_X]

Can't we play a 15 point match Triple_X?
If you win you are a great player and i will announce that publicly on the front page of this forum. If you lose you will do a humble apology to duece

That is the way you like it huh?

Finally somebody who has the balls to put his (virtual) money where his mouth is.
I will take you up on your offer, webrunner ...... with a few small, but significant changes to the challenge .... after all, you challenge me, so I get to pick the weapons.

I suggest we play an unlimited match and the winner is he that reaches 100 points first. Also, should the winner win by a margin of 10 or less points, the new goal to reach is 200 points.
Since luck falls both ways, only long stretches of play can unearth a difference between us.

I don't see, however, where deuce comes into this equation, so I'll up the stakes and make the deal even sweeter for all of you vultures ..... if I win, you will publicly announce that you have found your master in me and if you win .... hell, I'll terminate my account and leave FIBS, since you are all so intent on that anyway..... how about  that ?

and yes, that's the way I like it .... ;-)

so all that's left is a matter of practicality, I am available for our "mother of all matches" daily from approx. 15.00 to 05.00 GMT +1 ..... is there a convenient daily period of time within this timeframe for you ?


Triple_X  *polishing the cube in anticipation*

[diane]

Question is, Webrunner, do you have the rest of your life to devote to this match until you win it to the satisfaction of XXX    

[Triple_X]

pHear creeping in Diana ..... tsk, tsk, tsk .... how predictably weak !!

and you were all so convinced that I stink ..... what, you think that webrunner's luck won't last for more than 15 points ?

anybody with half a brain would understand that anything less than a long stretch would be completely meaningless and can be brushed aside as an occasional streak of luck.

I thought you all were so doubtfull of my skillz .... a long stretch neutralises both our lucky streaks ....

It's actually like this ... in backgammon terms: Considering the four 11-pointers with soky and deuce I am now ahead in games 46 to 30 and I'm doubling ..... take it or leave it, talk is cheap, reality is truth .... simple enough ?


Triple_X


P.S. Playing a few hours daily could do it in just a few days, a week at the most. So this other "half-truth" of the "rest of his life" is just another propagandistic populistic phrase, induced by pHear .... again !!

[deuce]

I love how people read things into things.

XXX - I don't think anyone has called for you to be "driven" from FIBS.  What folks want is for you to stop being such a pompous windbag.

And speaking of pompous windbags reading things into things: where has anyone expressed "surprise" at the analysis, Nihi?   I read every post (XXX exxxcepted) as expressing that the analysis confirms their conclusions.

Just have to throw the usual gratuitous swipe, doncha.

[insert derogatory epithet, here.  the mods would have deleted it, anyway.]

[diane]

So this other "half-truth" of the "rest of his life" is just another propagandistic populistic phrase

Actually it is hyperbole.

anybody with half a brain would understand that anything less than a long stretch would be completely meaningless and can be brushed aside as an occasional streak of luck.

I agree, but better than a 200 pt match would be to, say, compare your ratings, which are the fair representation of how well you have played over the entire experience you have on this server.. What were they again?
Oh yes, and we will mentally factor in the correction for the matches you have dropped because you were particularly unlucky.

XXX - I don't think anyone has called for you to be "driven" from FIBS. What folks want is for you to stop being such a pompous windbag.

Erm, actually the real objective was - as I recall, to stop him from dropping matches!!  He can be as pompous as he likes, as long as he aint dropping folks when they get a bit too lucky for his liking  

[inim]

To help authorities to hunt down the reason for his ill luck, I'd like to ask triple_x to fill in this form  (Official rec.games.backgammon Software Complaint Form) and submit it to Patti and Marvin. The form was created by Gary Wong of GnuBG fame in 1998.

This hint originally came from a nice Munich girl with broken English (Hi LisaS!). Thus I decided to translate it for her. Here we go in German ...

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Offizielles rec.games.backgammon Beschwerdeformular
----------------------------------------------------

Ich möchte mich aufregen und die Welt wissen lassen, daß ein grober
Justizirrtum in Bezug auf folgende Software vorliegt (alle
passenden ankreuzen):

 [ ] FIBS
 [ ] Games Grid
 [ ] Jellyfish
 [ ] Netgammon
 [ ] Snowie
 [ ] TD-Gammon
 [ ] GnuBG
 [ ] sonstige (Namen angeben) ______________________

Der Sachverhalt ist wie folgt (alle passenden ankreuzen).

 [ ] Der Zufallszahlengenerator ist voreingenommen, denn
 
     [ ] er wurde absichtlich vom Autor so programmiert, daß der
         Computer bessere Würfel bekommt um die Illusion eines
         herausragenden Backgammonprogramms zu schafffen;
     
     [ ] er wurde unabsichtlich vom Autor so programmiert, weil
         er/sie zu inkompetent ist einen korrekten Generator zu
         programmieren. Und das trotz der Tatsache, das
         befriedigende Algorithmen für Pseudo-Zufallszahlen-
         generatoren seit Jahrzehnten veröffentlicht sind;
         
  [ ] Eine Verschwörung zwischen dem/den (Namen angeben)      
      __________ Backgammonserver(n) und den Bot-Betreiber(n)
      (Namen angeben) ____________ sorgt dafür, das der/die
      Bot(s) stets bessere Würfel bekommen als ich. (Ich
      bin sicher auch Elvis und die Ermordung von Kennedy
      spielen hier eine Rolle, habe aber noch keine Beweise
      gefunden);

   [ ] Eine Verschwörung zwischen dem/den (Namen angeben)
      ___________ Backgammonserver(n) und den Spielern (Namen
      der Spieler die Sie schlagen angeben) ____________ sorgt
      dafür, daß der/die Bot(s) stets bessere Würfel bekommen
       als ich;

  [ ] Die Software wurde absichtlich so programmiert, um schwächeren
      Spielern hohe Bewertungen zu geben um Sie weiter an den
      Server zu binden;

  [ ] Die Software maximiert meine Duplikation und minimiert seine eigene
      um den Eindruck zu erwecken, daß er "glücklichere" Zahlen
      würfelt. (Das muß Betrug sein, stimmts?);

  [ ] Die Software ist hoffnungslos überteuert. (Ich WEISS das weil
      mein Lehrer in der 8ten Klasse eine Lehrstunde über
      Wirtschaft gemacht hat. Es dreht sich alles um das Gesetz
      von Angebot und noch irgendwas. Der Autor würde viel
      mehr Lizenzen verkaufen und alle Benutzer wären glücklich
      und wir hätten Weltfrieden wenn es billiger wäre. Außerdem
      will ich nicht so viel bezahlen).
      [ ] Außerdem mogelt die Software.

(Nur für Vorwürfe des Betrugs). Ich habe folgende Beweise, daß die
Software betrügt (alle passenden ankreuzen).

 [ ] Ich bin ein sehr guter Spieler, denn ich schlage meine
     Großmutter und meinen kleinen Bruder. Trotzdem gewinnt der
     Computer ständig gegen mich, daher MUSS es Betrug sein.

 [ ] Der Computer hat eine 7-7 gewürfelt und damit meinen 6-Prime
     ÃƒÂ¼bersprungen.

 [ ] Der Computer hat eine unglaubliche 4-3 gewürfelt, obwohl es
     nur 6 Würfe gab die es erlaubt hätten, gleichzeitig seinen
     Prime zu schließen und meinen Blot zu treffen, auf den es
     nur drei Schüsse gab. DANACH habe ich 6-4 und 5-5 gewürfelt
     und zweimal gegen seine 3-Punkt Verteidigung getanzt.
     Es wäre völlig unmöglich, daß so etwas mit echten Würfeln
     passiert, es MUSS also Betrug sein.

 [ ] Die Software hat drei Päsche in Folge beim Hinausziehen
     gewürfelt. Das ist offensichtlich unmöglich und MUSS daher
     Betrug sein.

 [ ] Ich spiele seit (Jahresangeabe) _____ Jahren und habe sowas
     noch nie gesehen. Es MUSS also Betrug sein.

Ich habe meine Anschuldigungen nicht formalisiert, eine
falsifisierbare Hypothese aufgestellt, ein Experiment vorgeschlagen,
Daten als Beweis gesammelt oder vernünftige Schlüsse gezogen weil
(alles passende ankreuzen):

 [ ] ich nicht weiss wie das geht;

 [ ] ich mich mit sowas nicht abgebe;

 [ ] ich bereits SICHER bin Recht zu haben, somit macht die
     Mühe keinen Sinn.

Als Schlußfolgerung verlange ich folgendes (alles passende
ankreuzen):

 [ ] Der Autor veröffentlicht den Quellcode.

 [ ] Der Händler senkt den Preis auf (Betrag angeben)
     EURO _.__ (nur für kommerzielle Software).

 [ ] Ich spiele sowieso mit einer Raubkope, aber auch die betrügt.
     Daher ist sie nichts wert und IRGENDJEMAND schuldet mir
     (Betrag angeben) EURO ____.____,__ (nur für kommerzielle
     Software).

 [ ] Die Software ist kostenlos, daher müssen die Autoren MIR
     (Betrag angeben) EURO ___.___,__ anbieten, damit ich ihre
     @!^$(* betrügerische Software weiter verwende (nur für
     kostenlose Software).

 [ ] Ich erkläre mich zufrieden mit einer pauschalen Abfindung in
     Höhe von EURO ___.___.___,__ für Schäden, die mir durch
     oben erläuterte Beschwerde entstanden sind.

 [ ] Ich möchte nichts weiter als die ewig gleichen Diskussionen
     in rec.games.backgammon neu anzufachen. Ist das außer mir
     noch jemandem aufgefallen?

Unterschrift,
(Pseudonym angeben) __________________

PS: Wie lautet Ihre Kennung für (Software angeben) _________________?


[Triple_X]

I agree, but better than a 200 pt match would be to, say, compare your ratings, which are the fair representation of how well you have played over the entire experience you have on this server.

[sn!pped the cheap shots}

Wrong again, Diane, those ratings represent a series of short stretches, most people here don't even want to play anything over 7 points .... therefore a series of short stretches says nothing, except, who wins most of his/hers FIRST games, capice ? It favors only the luck-throwers.

Same goes for those futile 1/3 tourney's .... meaningless, the winner can only say that he/she has won all of his/her FIRST games, again, they favor only the luck-throwers.

Since the cube is half the game (read: knowing when to double based on a tactical insight of the game, recognising situations etc.) it should not be brushed aside to reduce the game to something like say, for instance, playing chess with your last three moves changeable.

I am not even mentioning the fact that nobody here plays for money, resulting in too many doubles just getting accepted because it doesn't cost anybody anything anyway.

I also didn't mention yet the psychological advantages of playing opponents in real life (for money of course) .... seeing their frustration or overconfidence, doubt, fear etc. All these things should be integrated in the moment of using the cube .... that to me is the real game .... and to tell you the truth, I don't see much of it here, here I see a server to please a wide variety of players, in stead of real players.

Your big hero and idol here is NIHILIST, right ? Well, isn't he a professional moneyplayer ? I rest my case .....  

If NIHILIST has a grain of honesty in his body, he should confirm at least that all the other factors, that I have mentioned, are totally not represented in the ratings nor in the programlines of your holier than holy program: GnuBG ........

As far as my dropping is concerned, I think, by now, I have explained and proved that
I AM having connection problems and would further like to add that I don't give a rat's ass what excuse the average newbie here gives ....... not one iota, clear ?

Lastly I would also like to add that I noticed that due to my obvious above-average command of the english language most of you are now inspired by the "pompous windbag" to bend over backwards in attempts to match my eloquentia .... ROFL

Since I am a nice person at heart, I will rough up my english, add a few more typos here and there, so you all won't have to feel the obvious distance anymore, nice or not ?

Bottomline ..... webrunner doubled (challenged) me, I beavered and am now giving it back to him ...... will he take it or fold ??


as always, yours truely,


Triple_X aka "pompous windbag"

I guess both Robert and me love the smell of napalm in the morning ... it smells like ... like ... imminent victory !

[MND]

Doesnt this analyses show that they are both stronger in longer matches than their ratings indicate?

By the way NIHILIST and Biggles are not my heroes here and I look forward to see analyses from their matches here.

Regards
MND

[deuce]

Now, I am truly amused.

Dude, we've just met.  I've been on FIBS for nigh on ten years.  And you have the gall, the *vanity* to suggest that I am altering my writing to match yours?  Anyone here will tell you that over the course of my decade of participation on FIBS that clarity of expression, and (something you utterly lack) *style* are my two highest priorities in writing.  I'd have to tie one lobe of my brain behind my back to descend to your level of illiterate incompetence.

Get thee to a Strunk and White Style Manual.  A Grade School Grammer Guide, even.

Look up the following:  Sentence Fragments.  Run-on Sentences.  Subject-Verb Agreement.  Non-standard punctuation.  Errors of each type are on frequent display in your "eloquence".  (Not "eloquatia", ya lunkhead.)   You might also want to compose your screeds in a word processor, because Spell Check is your friend, and the two of you seem to be unacquainted.

Hey, English ain't your first language, but you can make yourself understood.  Bully for you.

But don't brag on yourself about it, as my more southern friends might say.  Makes you look more the fool.

So, in addition to Pompous Windbag



We can now safely add

to your growing list of titles.

Hey, lookie!  I can use the image tags, too!

And in closing, Nihilist, my hero?

It is to laugh.

[diane]

Wrong again, Diane, those ratings represent a series of short stretches,

Yes, in which the luck swings to and fro - just as it does if you play a longer one - over time and enough matches it evens out.  The only real distortions occur at either end of the spectrum - where the very good players beat their opponents more often - and the very poor players lose more often.  In the middle - the rating is a pretty fair indication.

I wont comment on the language - since English isnt your first language - and therefore any errors are irrelevant.

Since the cube is half the game (read: knowing when to double based on a tactical insight of the game, recognising situations etc.) it should not be brushed aside to reduce the game

Ohhhh how very true - and laughable in light of the one match I have seen you play!!!

Your big hero and idol here is NIHILIST, right ?

lol - ask him    (or check both our complaints on repbot   )

And finally

Bottomline ..... webrunner doubled (challenged) me, I beavered and am now giving it back to him ...... will he take it or fold ??

what you came back with was not a sensible proposal - and you know it - so now you essentially can blame him for not accepting the challenge - but kid yourself not - we know who didnt accept a reasonable challenge ( of course this is assuming webbie doesnt want to spend the next few weeks playing your idiot game )

And now - I for one am bored of you .....

[dorbel]

As money has now been mentioned, I am ready to deposit a sum of XXX's choosing, between $100 and $1,000, with an agreed third party, to be the stake for a match of say, 25 points? However fibsters, don't hold your breath while waiting for the match to start, there will be some reason why this is not acceptable to the Maestro!

[deuce]

I gladly volunteer to hold the stakes.

Contact me as soon as the match is agreed upon.

D, not holding his breath.

[diane]

As money has now been mentioned, I am ready to deposit a sum of XXX's choosing, between $100 and $1,000, with an agreed third party, to be the stake for a match of say, 25 points? However fibsters, don't hold your breath while waiting for the match to start, there will be some reason why this is not acceptable to the Maestro!

Ok - suddenly I am interested again!!!

I would volunteer - but I expect XXX wouldnt trust me much now