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Author Topic: Repbot  (Read 36596 times)
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lewscannon
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« Reply #80 on: February 28, 2006, 12:08:11 AM »

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Am I the only one that takes mookies' comments seriously?
Yes, and you should be very afraid.
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burper
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« Reply #81 on: February 28, 2006, 02:22:19 AM »

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Am I the only one that takes mookies' comments seriously?
Yes, and you should be very afraid.
Hey, I understood that.
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FIBS Board backgammon forum
« Reply #81 on: February 28, 2006, 02:22:19 AM »

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burper
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« Reply #82 on: February 28, 2006, 02:25:57 AM »

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so if you want to discuss the continued existence of repbot you need to start with that assumption.
And there is an assumption you can let go of. I really wish you would pull the plug already. Your cooperative attitude will no longer be needed, thanks.
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gammboy
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« Reply #83 on: February 28, 2006, 03:28:55 AM »

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Way back there somewhere in the thread someone said 3DFibs was not connected to Repbot, but it is! At least that is what it says when the response window comes up. So 3DFibs would have to be modified for the changes.

No. Although 3DFibs does automatically query repbot and display the results, it gets its saved games count (as displayed on the invite dialog where you click accept or decline) from the fibs.com saved games list.

In the preferences, you can tell it to download a fresh list every time you sign on.

GB
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gammboy
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« Reply #84 on: February 28, 2006, 03:34:24 AM »

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I honestly think that the right fix is to change the code so that you can only generate an opinion of someone within a very short time window after you have played a match with them. While there are rare cases where there could be some value in registering an opinion for someone you've had no 'contact' with, almost all of the haven't-played cases are reputation bombing of some sort.

For what its worth, I see this as a "must have" feature of any new incarnation of repbot.

GB
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don
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« Reply #85 on: February 28, 2006, 05:34:19 AM »

Burper, my show-saved bot was freely available, both for testing and for source.  I think I mentioned it here at least once.  I couldn't leave it up and running because I used methods not supported by my ISP's PYTHON, so I couldn't make it a sleeper.  It's not really very complex, just reads the available data from Patti and regurgitates it in two modes, simple number of saved and a list.  I'll make it available to you if I can find it and if you need it.

It's major innovation for FIBS is ripped off from NOBS, the show player saved function.  In my case it was, I believe, something like "ask DTBot player" and  "ask DTBot list player" or somesuch.  These are objective functions, and IMO more imformative than any subjective complaints, vouches and friends thingies.


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don
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burper
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« Reply #86 on: February 28, 2006, 02:14:40 PM »

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No. Although 3DFibs does automatically query repbot and display the results, it gets its saved games count (as displayed on the invite dialog where you click accept or decline) from the fibs.com saved games list.
 
Note that this is less accurate than RepBot, which intersects yesterdays list with todays in order to discard the "started AND finished" matches. It might be worth considering.

The saved games list from fibs is misleading in at least these ways:
-the count includes matches started and finished since the last time the "match file garbage collection" script ran, which is less than 24 hours.
-it counts unlimited matches

A bit akward to implement for a client, and still just a first pass at making the list more accurate.
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burper
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« Reply #87 on: February 28, 2006, 02:19:05 PM »

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I honestly think that the right fix is to change the code so that you can only generate an opinion of someone within a very short time window after you have played a match with them. While there are rare cases where there could be some value in registering an opinion for someone you've had no 'contact' with, almost all of the haven't-played cases are reputation bombing of some sort.

For what its worth, I see this as a "must have" feature of any new incarnation of repbot.

GB
Note that the RepBot "list" function has always shown an asterisk next to the name of opponents with whom an outstanding savedgame exists. I'm not sure that mitigates anything.

I remember debating with Avi that the 'saved match at the time of complaint' be saved for the life of the complaint and not expire with the saved match on FIBS, but he out-voted me Smiley

In fact, one might argue that I am more with Patti on that issue than the current hoster of RepBot. Wouldn't that be weird?
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burper
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« Reply #88 on: February 28, 2006, 02:21:47 PM »

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Burper, my show-saved bot was freely available, both for testing and for source.  I think I mentioned it here at least once.  
 
If I was wrong, I apologize.
Where is it now? I'm not a pythoner myself, but I believe for projects such as this one, you should try to post the code somewhere so that future fibsters who become interested can benefit from it, perhaps long after you have become bored with it. Perhaps webrunner has a place for it here?
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NIHILIST
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« Reply #89 on: February 28, 2006, 09:46:50 PM »

I've felt from day one that RepBot was useless and a tool for abusing players by complaining whether justified or not. And through all the preceeding conversation I haven't seen one post address the area which MIGHT make RepBot valuable.

While RepBot shows the number of saved games  a player has, it doesn't indicate whether the player was WINNING or LOSING the saved matches as Netgammon does. In other words, RepBot does NOTHING to identify the dropper or the droppee. Whether we admit it or not,we tend to characterize a player with lots of saved games as a DROPPER.

I have a ton of saved games, mainly from clowns who think it's great fun to invite me, F-bomb me, then drop. No big deal, as an old client once said, NEVER EXPLAIN, NEVER COMPLAIN. It doesn't seem to keep me from getting invites.

Having said my piece I must admit that RepBot was indirectly responsible for perhaps the single most valuable contribution of all time to the FIBS community..............it got Don banned from FIBS for 6 months.


NIHI
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Robert J Ebbeler
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« Reply #90 on: February 28, 2006, 10:34:44 PM »

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While RepBot shows the number of saved games a player has, it doesn't indicate whether the player was WINNING or LOSING the saved matches as Netgammon does.

Without access to the FIBS server source code, this is not (as far as I know) possible.  However, consider the following:

>stats NIHolympic

NIHolympic:  (R=1,930.55 / E=8,891): 1,097 wins, 564 losses, 137 resumes. Finished 1,661 matches of a total of 1,770 starts on file, leaving 109 matches unfinished.

A bot that keeps track of match starts and finishes can give a little more insight into a player.  For instance, a bunch of unfinished matches and no resumes is a pretty strong indicator.

GB
« Last Edit: February 28, 2006, 10:45:17 PM by gammboy » Logged
NIHILIST
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« Reply #91 on: February 28, 2006, 11:03:50 PM »

Am I correct in assuming that the UNFINISHED MATCHES total is the number of current saveds and saved matches that were never resumed and disappeared after 3-6 months ?

NIHI
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Robert J Ebbeler
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« Reply #92 on: February 28, 2006, 11:05:50 PM »

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Without access to the FIBS server source code, this is not (as far as I know) possible.
Its' possible. You could make a bot that use the 'look' command  and analyze them with gnubg.

From a practical standpoint, you couldn't do them all.
You might have this bot look at suspect droppers, i.e. those with lots of complaints.

True, a user could perma-blind this bot, but that would tell you something as well.

As far as privacy goes, you might ONLY look at suspects, and AFTER fair warning, i.e. "probable cause".
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gammboy
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« Reply #93 on: February 28, 2006, 11:26:33 PM »

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Am I correct in assuming that the UNFINISHED MATCHES total is the number of current saveds and saved matches that were never resumed and disappeared after 3-6 months ?

Unfinished matches is the number of starts minus the number of finishes since the beginning of my bot's data collection (June '05).  It is data independent of Fibs' savedgames list.

GB
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gammboy
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« Reply #94 on: February 28, 2006, 11:37:21 PM »

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Its' possible. You could make a bot that use the 'look' command and analyze them with gnubg.

I would think that even keeping simultaneous track of 20 matches would yeild less than satisfactory results.  Missed moves, etc.  Not to mention the load on the server that volume of looks would generate.  So, I agree, it is theoretically possible, but not practical. At any rate, this sounds like more of an admin tool than something for the general user population.

GB
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socksey
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« Reply #95 on: March 01, 2006, 11:30:13 PM »

From Patti,
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I've managed to play on FIBS for well over a decade and never found a need for it, and I don't think I've been dropped in the last 5+ years.

Who would drop Patti?Huh?Huh?Huh? LOL Sorry, but if someone drops you they can be extinct immediately. Am I not correct? Being an administrator has it's perks too!  

socksey <------------still likes Repbot




"I see in the near future a crisis approaching that unnerves me and causes me to tremble for the safety of my country…corporations have been enthroned and an era of corruption in high places will follow, and the money power of the country will endeavor to prolong it's reign by working upon the prejudices of the people until all wealth is aggregated in a few hands and the Republic is destroyed." - Abraham Lincoln
« Last Edit: March 01, 2006, 11:32:00 PM by socksey » Logged
Patti
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« Reply #96 on: March 02, 2006, 01:54:15 AM »

socksey, I basically don't play live people as myself-- only bots.  I have an account that nobody knows is me, that I use for just playing as a normal user.  No drops, no problems.
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don
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« Reply #97 on: March 02, 2006, 07:11:30 AM »

Burper, I'll ressurect the bot if you are really interested.  As for NIHI's comment, such a bot would be quite simple if the data were available, and is achieved in some form on NOBS, which makes current match situations available via the oldboard command.  I'm not impressed with NIHI's little protest since he's one of the ones who abuses RepBot.  With access to the FIBS database, as is available on saved games thanks to Patti(both numbers of and with whom) bots can provide functionality without actually reprogramming FIBS.  More access = more happy campers, IMO.

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don
 
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socksey
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« Reply #98 on: March 03, 2006, 06:01:34 AM »

Patti says:
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socksey, I basically don't play live people as myself-- only bots. I have an account that nobody knows is me, that I use for just playing as a normal user. No drops, no problems.

This is getting off the subject a bit, but have we ever played?  Who won?   rolleyes

socksey



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Patti
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« Reply #99 on: March 03, 2006, 06:16:18 AM »

Socksey, you've gotta be kidding.  I can barely remember what I had for lunch today, let alone what matches I might have played over the last few years.

People always come up to me at poker tournaments and ask, "Do you remember that hand you played against me last year at ..."  Yeah, right.  After tens of thousands of hands, I'm going to remember one from a year ago?
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